Black Powder Newbie Question

[Backswampcub]

    I am within a week or two of firing my first cannon. It is a GB bore Naval Cannon courtesy of Dom Carpenter. I asked a friend to see if he could find some cannon grade powder for me while he was out of state. He returned with two pounds of it for me. This is my question. I was expecting powder. This is like pebbles. Is this normal it could just be my newness. I just was expecting powder like I said.

[Artilleryman]

Cannon grade powder is rather coarse.  What brand is it?

[Backswampcub]

     I was told that it was surplus Skirmish. It is in Clear Vacum sealed bags that are marked Cannon Grade.

[cannonmn]

surplus Skirmish

Ok.

We know what commercial "cannon grade" is if that's really what you have.

"Skirmish" doesn't mean anything to me in terms of black powder.

"Surplus" may or may not mean military surplus.  Within that category, several distinct granulations have been sold through licensed dealers.  One I've used comes from the 3-ounce ignitor bags from 155mm artillery powder charges.  I think the military calls it "class 1A" or something like that.  It is very large-grained powder, I'd say the average grain is a few times larger than regular "cannon" grade that's sold commercially for recreational cannon shooting by manufacturers such as Goex.

If you photograph 10 or 20 grains spread on a piece of graph paper so we can see the grains and the divisions (and tell us what divisions measure,) we'll have a good idea what you have.  Or you can use a ruler with grains spread along it if you don't have graph paper.

[Cat Whisperer]

OK!

Taking the simplified approach: what you have is good.  You WANT a coarse powder (lower pressure than finer powder).

Skirmish is an indication (to me) that it's OK for running around and shooting and hollerin' but might not be the best for precision match shooting.

[Double D]

Might be FA. 

[RocklockI]

As I am also purchasing powder at this time ,I tried to figure out some of these powder "DEALS"

Skirmisher Powder is a reenacter "Type" powder meaning basicly for shooting blanks . It will also shoot a projectle .....OK .

There are a couple of differnant brands . Accordingto what I was told by a wholeseller is that The Schuzen skirmisher powder is made up of left over parts of batches . All sizes of powder cannon and down mixed together and sold as reenacter powder .

I'm guessing it's a mix but each size would have to be measured into the whole ,or there would be no consistency at all . 

There is at least one other guy out there who is selling recliamed powder as "cannon grade reenactor" powder .

I was under the impression that poly bags only went to licenced dealers ....?
 
Some reenactor powders are not glazed and have alot of "fines" this could be due to 4f being mixed in from left overs in some cases . Or who knows in the case someone who reclaims their own...?

The Big Game in buying powder these days is the Hazmat/shipping fees .
One guy sells it for a 57dollar hazmat up to 25lbs with min limits .

Another guy will only charge 20 bucks hazmat sell you a pound if thats what you want .  I feel like I've done my home work . There is a lb of Schulzen 2F coming ,1lb of Schulzen reenactor powder and 1lb of Goex cannon grade .

They will avg out to @$20 per lb B4 shipping is added .

For the same $$$ I could just pay the Haz Fee at another place ....THEN start adding powder....and a 25lb min.

Hope this helps , as soon as I find out which I like best I'll order in some quantity
Gary

[Evil Dog]

I've tried a number of the "Brand X" powders and always keep coming back to GOEX.  It may cost a little more but I feel that I always know for sure what I am getting whether it be for one of my flintlocks, my mortar or the half-scale Napoleon.  I've never been disappointed.

[Double D]

Rocklock,

Go to Powder inc and look at their pricing.  No figuring or fiddling.  The price included HAZMAT and shipping. You can mix and match powders.  If your cannon is over 1 inch I would use Cannon GOEX under 1 inch FG GOEX.  If you don't care where the ball hits get a cheap FG.

Here is the powder suppliers from the Cannoln List,

Powder

• Schuetzen Powder LLC
• Powder Inc --offers shipments in five pound lots
• GOEX
• Maine Powder House
• Hodgdon
• Crater
• Back Creek Gun Shop Winchester VA
• Graf's

While we are talking powder, Hodgdon has bought GOEX.  Not sure if that is realy meaningful or not.

Semper fi,

[seacoastartillery]

Yes I understand and that's were I started looking . And I used them as a baseline , I have ordered from a sponser and I have no issue with the others . If you take the time to compare , minimum orders , prices , and Hazmat fee's . There are fairly signifigant differances.

rocklockI

BTW I an now at Seacoast world Headquarters learning stuff.

[Double D]

Rocklock,

They let you in the Penthouse suite?

[Backswampcub]

  The granules in the powder average about 1-2mm each. It appears to be glazed as mentioned earlier. As it has a shiny consistency and is not dicoloring the clear bag. I would have liked Goex but this is what he was able to find. Mail order was not an option as I did not want 5lbs. I have had no luck finding anyone in Eastern NC to split a order with.

[BoomLover]

Had a few questions about different sized grain in black powder...can you grind it in a mortar and pestal to make it finer, and more even grain? Did I recall correctly someone suggesting using a coffee grinder to reduce the powder size? Is it best to sift it to seperate the grain size? Or more progressively finer screenings to get a more even grade powder? And, how critical is it when using cannon grade to have even sized grain? One more, what is the difference if the grains are coated or not? Thanks for any info! BoomLover

[RocklockI]

Rocklock,

They let you in the Penthouse suite?

No ,I had to get home ......as the wife has to go to work . 

[Double D]

There is no way to uniformly grind the powder.  

If you grind 1 pound of Fg you will get some FFG, Some FFFg, some FFFG and some fines totaling 1 pound.  You will have to by the proper size screens to to separate the grades. You may or may not get equal amount of any one one grade  The powder will not be polished but will have sharp edges. This may cause erratic burn rates.  If the original powder was coated you will also have coated and uncoated edges and that will affect burn rates.

[Cat Whisperer]

...
 Did I recall correctly someone suggesting using a coffee grinder to reduce the powder size?
...
 BoomLover

You MIGHT be able to 'get away with it'.
BUT, I would be prepared for the KA-BOOM when you least expect it.

There is a reason that the blackpowder manufacturing plants have buildings separated by great distances.  (The one in Augusta, Georgia was MANY MILES long, along the river.)
 
Some things you don't do because every time it will hurt you; other things you don't do because once in a while something catestrophic can happen.

I knew a kid when I was in HS that mixed up home-made blackpowder with a shovel inside a bathtub and used a window screen to screen out the lumps.   Hmmmm.

[Rickk]

look here http://www.skylighter.com/skylighter_info_pages/article.asp?Item=47#size for good info on grain size. The grain size is determined by the size of screens that it will pass thru. For what it's worth, cannon grade is really big if you are used to seeing 2/3/4F.

What I get from "Powderinc" called skirmish powder is 1F. They also carry a 3F. They don't have a "cannon" skirmish. But that doesn't mean there is no such thing. "Skirmish Powder" is typically a cheaper grade of black powder, possibly made in China. I have no issues with it, and use it alot. What I get is in clearly marked metal cans. I have never seen it in plastic bags. I guess someone might be packaging it that way. What I get may or may not be what you get.

If your powder is bigger grains that what you hoped for you will at least be safe, as larger grain sizes produce less pressure (usually). There are instances where the opposite is true. The Lyman black powder reloading manual has pressure barrel data that sometimes shows that bigger grain sizes CAN produce more pressure than smaller grain sizes, bucking the generally accepted rule.

Dom makes conservative barrels. Golf balls are light. Don't grind powder unless you have screens to grade it. Start with a light load with what you have and and you should be in safe territory.

[BoomLover]

Thanks, fellows, for all the responses to my "retorical" questions. I personally go with the powder as purchased from the manufacturs, and the questions were ones I thought that "newbies" and visitors to the forum might have, being unfamiliar to black powder shooting. I ask questions that others might have, but didn't want to ask, or hadn't thought that far in advance to ponder unintended consequences! As always, I defer to the "experts" and the seasoned veterans of the Black Powder Mortar and Cannon Forum!

[Double D]

I'm no expert, by far, but I am well seasoned!