Author Topic: .45-70 factory loads.. moderate recoil?? (Read 1524 times)

michauxii · « **on:** January 06, 2009, 05:43:02 PM »

I'm looking for a factory round that has a little more "umph" than the standard 405gr round at 1300 fps. Not much more, say 250-300fps or so.

A decent 350gr bullet at 1500-1600fps would be great.

I'm helping a fairly light weight young man get into hog hunting with his new handi-rifle, and he just can't handle the heavier recoiling stuff.
He does not have access to handloading.

Ideas??

Dave Weiss · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2009, 06:08:42 PM »

Those 405gr factory loads at 1300fps have more "umph" than you might think. I have no experience with hogs, but they stop moose dead in their tracks... Most of the other otc loads are pretty hot (at least what I've found).

>>>===> Dave

BBF · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 02:40:42 AM »

Other then the Rems 405 and the new Hdy LE ammo the only choice would be the 300 gr offerings. I believe the Federal ammo is the 'hottest" and that is probably an overstatement. The Hdy might have more recoil then the young man is willing to handle.

Westbound · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2009, 03:59:43 AM »

Any of the factory loads should be fine for hogs.
Most of the factory loads are close to each others performance except the Hornady Leverevolution, which will be a bit more power, range, and recoil.
To step up in power without reloading you would have to look to Buffalo Bore or Garrett. Here you would plan on spending 45 to 60 dollars a box and the recoil is punishing.

I'm a pretty big guy (6'4" and 225lbs) and Buffalo Bore's 405gr at 2000 was about all I wanted. I fired 9 to sight in. I had no plans for firing #10. Thank goodness the ninth shot was were i wanted! This was also out of my Buffalo Classic, which is a heavier gun than the Handi. I'm saving the rest of the box in case of an escaped rhino from the zoo

LONGTOM · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2009, 04:09:13 AM »

Put one of the better slip on recoil pads ( I KNOW THEY LOOK FUNKY ) on it and shoot the factory ammo and he will be fine with the recoil!

LONGTOM

michauxii · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2009, 05:09:32 AM »

Gentlemen, Thanks for the replies!

tykempster · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2009, 05:30:21 PM »

The Garrett ammo made for all action types would probably be about what you're looking for.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2009, 06:03:43 PM »

Please define your use of the term more "umph". Once we have that out of the way and have explained why that definition fails to hold water we can move on to what is actually appropriate for the use you are asking about.

The .45-70 with a 400 grain hard cast or for that matter soft pointed jacketed bullet moving out at 1250-1400 fps is all the medicine needed. Most merely hurts the shoulder and adds nothing to killing power.

To me more "umph" doesn't equate to more velocity and certainly not a lighter bullet moving faster but in fact just the opposite. It means more bullet mass and/or diameter. In big bores that's just the way it works. When you move to smaller bore higher speed bullets things work some differently.

michauxii · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:53:15 PM »

Bill,
The "umph" I was looking for would indeed be more velocity.. not so much for the gain in energy (which is probably not needed) but for a little better trajectory.

In my mind, I pictured a well constructed 350gr. bullet at 1700 fps.

Mid-ways between the classic 405gr. factory load and the hotter 2000fps loadings.

Strictly a compromise for the sake of a little better trajectory.

But I'm all ears and appreciate any/all advice and any constructive criticisms to my way of thinking.

Westbound · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2009, 03:26:05 AM »

Remington's factory 300gr JHP moves at 1800fps. when sighted for 50 yards, it is 1.3" low at 100 yards.
It actually carries a lot more energy than the 405gr round.

I'm relatively new to 45-70, but some other members here have used the 300gr factory loads and had complete penetration on larger game.

I mis-understood the "more umph" part. as Bill stated, the big bore guys think more umph would be more energy, or getting the biggest piece of lead possible down range!

So far as your original recoil concerns... any of the factory loads are pretty mild. I shoot my Buffalo Classic with a lace on recoil pad I got at Cabela's for around 30 dollars.
This puts my felt recoil in line with my 12 gauge with birdshot. "Felt Recoil" is subjective, so as they say, "Individual results may vary".

Graybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2009, 04:17:57 AM »

Based on that definition of it I'd say go with a good 300 grain bullet either cast or perhaps the Nosler PT. You can get the velocity up for a bit flatter trajectory and still keep recoil low. I think most all 350s are designed with the .458 Win. and .458 Lott in mind so are unlikely to expand at the lower velocity of the .45-70. Of course when you start out at .458" not much expansion is needed.

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2009, 09:33:07 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on January 08, 2009, 04:17:57 AM

Of course when you start out at .458" not much expansion is needed.

I agree with you on that Bill.A .458'' Bullet that expands very little or not at all is still gonna drop anything you hit with it as long as you make a good shot on it.Most of your smaller calibers like the 270 7mm or 30cal for that matter when the bullets expand are less than .458 diameter.Like I said before if shot plcement is right its goin down.

brad925 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2009, 11:20:42 AM »

Was just on hornadys site and noticed they just added a pointed .458 cal. 325gr bullet to their line up. Not available yet but said coming soon. Should have a better B.C and improved accuracy. Its not the rubber tipped so no good for levers (too bad so sad) but will work dandy in my Buff Classic.

BBF · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2009, 12:13:57 PM »

OP said the lad had no access to hand loads. So it would seem the HDY LE is going to give you the best trajectory and energy.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2009, 12:39:13 PM »

Quote from: brad925 on January 08, 2009, 11:20:42 AM

Was just on hornadys site and noticed they just added a pointed .458 cal. 325gr bullet to their line up. Not available yet but said coming soon. Should have a better B.C and improved accuracy. Its not the rubber tipped so no good for levers (too bad so sad) but will work dandy in my Buff Classic.

The 325gr FTX IS the gummy tipped bullet that's used in the Leverevolution ammo, ALL of the FTX bullets will be available sometime this year, Midway has them all listed as coming, has for over a month now, but the press release said it would be a 2009 product.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=789

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=0d0c4d2240e7de411e107b4dcebc372f&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=af5deec836f85b2da637a81825e37bab

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2009, 03:15:47 PM »

What kinda hogs are we talking? On ferals at ranges beyond 50 yards I'd go with the Remington 300. Plenty of people hunt them with 30-06 arojnd here and have fairly good luck. There a pretty mild load as far as recoil goes.

michauxii · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2009, 08:05:59 PM »

Gentlemen,
I appreciate all the replies! I'm going to load the 300gr Nosler bullet down to 1700-1800 fps and so some penetration tests with it (if anyone has done this and has some info.. please share).

If things go well, I'll bring the young man and his dad up for a day of handloading. They are my 2nd/3rd cousins.

I'm sure we can crank out 100 rounds of very good ammo and it should last a season or two. Probably what I should have done in the first place!

It's a shame that there is not more "intermediate" factory ammo loaded for this cartridge.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2009, 08:40:42 PM »

The 300gr Nosler PP has a wide terminal performance operating range, 800-2300fps, so it will work very well, it's too bad they're so darned expensive. $:-\$

Tim

tobster · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2009, 05:23:16 AM »

I would not recommend the Remington 300JHP. My experience with them in handloads at around 1800 fps is that they are too frangible. I shot two deer with them,both shoulder shots. The first deer shot at about 50 yards ,ran another 50,went down for a few seconds, got back up and was never seen again. No hair or blood trail,only a small amount of blood where he went down. Deer # 2 was also hit in lung area twice at around a 100 yards.Niether bullet exited. I found 1 smear of lead and parts of the jacket in the off-side neck when I butchered him. I'm guessing they would not do any better on hogs.

BBF · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2009, 11:27:26 AM »

I hope you can try out some of those Noslers in the rifle that will be used. What if it shoots crap with that bullet?

With the prices for Nosler PT's you don't want to waste any.I still think a 400 gr Speer FN pushed out at ca. 1500 to 1600 fps will do just fine on any porkers. I would recommend RL-7 or H-322 as the powders to try.

tykempster · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2009, 12:25:32 PM »

I've killed some deer with the 300 grain Remington around 2300 fps and they exited...haven't recovered one yet!