Paper cartridges...

[Victor3]

 Anyone here use nitrated paper cartridges for their small cannons?

 When I made my 1" cannon, I also made tooling (slightly tapered plastic rods and cups) to form/load paper cartridges with. It's easy for me to make up cartridges with powder and ball together. There's no need to worm since the paper (and nitro-cellulose glue) burns up completely. I swab, but no un-burned paper has ever come out.

 I take a piece of paper, wrap it around a teflon rod and glue it on the side and end to form a tube with a closed end. Then I stick the rod with the paper on it into a cup and remove the rod. I pour the powder in, place a ball on top and close the end of the tube on top of the ball with a dab of glue.

 I put the individual cartridges into film canisters and carry them along with my other cannon goodies in a 50 cal ammo can to the range.

[Rickk]

Hi Victor,

I use aluminum foil for 1". It is still big enough that aluminum foil is practical. I don't bother with an internal plastic baggie though, as it is a bit small to get that in there as well. The aluminum foil left in the bore comes out when I swab it.

Nitrated paper might ignite pretty easily, making the possibility of accidental discharge due to a burning ember more likley than with aluminim foil. Considering the relatively short bore and the ease of cleaning them, I guess if you swab it well there is little change of burning residue. I have a routine down for the aluminum foil though and it seems to work well.

Tropico... "King of the 1" Bore"... got any opnions?

Rick

[cannonmn]

>internal plastic baggie

Who recommends that inside a foil cartridge and why?  I'd stay away from it since it makes the cartridge into an electrical capacitor.  The foil outside separated from graphited (conductive) powder on the inside by a dielectric (insulator) will carry an electrical charge on the inner surfaces of the conductors.  In dry conditions, and maybe after you slide across a car seat gettiing out of a vehicle, all charged up, then touch it, well why introduce another potential problem (no pun intended.)

[Double D]

This a pretty interesting topic. There some ambiguity in the discussion.

The whole pupose of the of the foil cartridge is to protect the powder from stray ignition sources.

N-SSA requires the foil cartridge.  They don't address combustible cartridges in cannons, but for all other firearms they prohibit combustible cartridges.

AAA Requires the use of foil and allows the use of plastic baggies

THe Massachusetts Fire Code 527 CMR requires the use of a foil cartridge.  It also allows the use of combustible cartridges but they must be wrapped in foil until just before they are loaded.

None of these regulating bodys prohibit the plastic bag.

Lots of debate over using the plastic bag, but I don't think I have heard the capacitor theory used before. The common argument is the pieces of molten plastic will foul the bore and vent.

The argument for the bag is that keeps loose particles of powder from being trapped in the folds of the foil.  I never paid this much attenion until one day I wormed out a piece aluminum with loose powder trapped in a fold. Since that day I have used baggies.

I also find it significant that none of the regulating bodies prohibit the baggie.  Should the capictor theory be a real concern then it would seem the bodies whould have addressed it.

[cannonmn]

I suspect no one will really know if the electrical thing should be a concern until someone runs a controlled experiment not  unlike those I've seen the "mythbusters" do.  Some they've done dealt with face jewelry rings and lightning, and what happens if one p's on the third rail of an electric railroad.  I think both turned out to be non-problems since the actors weren't able to demonstrate the hazard described by the myth.

[Artilleryman]

N-SSA requires the foil cartridge.  They don't address combustible cartridges in cannons, but for all other firearms they prohibit combustible cartridges.

Just to clarify the N-SSA prohibits combustible cartridges in all muzzle loading firearms.  Combustible cartridges can be used in Sharps carbines or rifles.

[Double D]

Thanks, Norman for clarification. 

[Rickk]

In Massachusetts the plastic bag is mandatory, as is the aluminum foil.

What a great state to live in.
At least we can still drive a car at at 65 MPH while text messaging.

Of course, they didn't define what a "cannon" is in the regulations so at some undefined point it is so small it is no longer a cannon but a muzzleloading handgun and the regulations won't apply.

Anyway, BP is not all that static sensitive. There are some sources of data on the net that seem to prove this to some degree. It is actually possible to occationally buy it in bulk, usually of chinese origin, in plastic bags packed in cardboard boxes.

The reason for the requirement, right or wrong, is that the plastic bag will contain the BP and make sure than none works it's way out of the various folds in the aluminum foil.

As far as plastic residue, I always find the bottom half of the aluminum foil bag in the bottom of the bore but have never found even a hint of the plastic bag anywhere. I always assumed it vaporizes.

Rick

[Artilleryman]

Goex (25 Lb) comes in plastic bags in cardboard boxes.  If you make the aluminum foil cartridge bag carefully on a former there isn't any folds in the bottom or sides for the powder to get into.  The only part of the bag left in the bore is the bottom of the bag.  This may be different for the small bore cannons. 

[cannonmn]

The plastic bags that Goex packs black powder in are supposed to be a special conductive plastic, which keeps any static sparks from reaching the powder inside.  That's what I've been told anyway.  The baggies you get in packages at the store aren't conductive plastic.

[Victor3]

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html