Author Topic: AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM  (Read 653 times)

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Offline CyberDean

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AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM
« on: January 20, 2009, 05:32:10 AM »
This is an article found on the internet and I am wondering if anyone else has read it, have an opinion, agree, disagree, good points, bad points, gospel or not worth a crap.

An introduction is below with the internet address to the full article.  The article is well written and long, but I found I could not stop reading it till I was finished.

Dean



Description

This is a guide to help you select the best ammunition for your defensive firearm. Most of these opinions are based upon the work of Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow, police officers who have extensively studied the issue of firearms, ammunition and stopping power.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4089866/AMMUNITION-FOR-THE-SELFDEFENSE-FIREARM
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."  Mt 6:33

Dean, West Virginia, USAF, Retired, NRA Life Member, member HCA, USCCA

S&W M&P 45 & M&P Compact 40S&W, H&R Handi Rifle SB2 45-70 (2),  Marlin 1895G 45-70 GOVT,  Winchester 70 25 WSSM,  Santa FE #12014 Delux Mauser MK1 30-06

Offline user

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Re: AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 02:52:08 PM »
That link seems to require Adobe Flash, which I don't let onto my computer for security reasons.  However, I've run across certain opinions of Mr. Ayoob that strike me as "dust in the eyes", to use the technical legal term.

If you pull out your gun and shoot someone with it, that's going to be the fact that you have to deal with, not whether your trigger and hammer spring are lightened up, whether you've had a gunsmith do an action job, and not whether you've used hollow-point ammunition.  What you're going to have to be able to deal with is the fact that you used a lethal weapon to injure or kill another human being.  Your defense has to be this, and pretty much only this, and you've got to be able to make it confidently, and aggressively:  "I had a reasonably formed good faith belief, based on objective fact, that the person I shot was imminently about to perpetrate a serious bodily injury upon myself or an innocent third person."

Almost every single word in that sentence is important, and you've got to be able to establish the whole thing with evidence (especially your own testimony and that of other witnesses).  If you had a good reason to pull the gun out of your holster, then you've got a good defense.  If not, it doesn't matter what kind of ammunition you used.

Offline S.S.

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Re: AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 04:34:10 PM »
when I read who contributed to the article I decided not to waste the time
reading it. The best of what they talk about seems to be who pays them
the most to say it is the best. As with most gun writers.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".

Offline Savage

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Re: AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 01:45:37 AM »
What a load of bull! I was amazed when I got to the sentence stating: Hollow points are safer for the assailant, as he is less likely to die than if he were shot with ball ammunition. Stopped reading at that point.
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline drdougrx

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Re: AMMUNITION FOR THE SELF-DEFENSE FIREARM
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 03:02:44 AM »
OK...so I read the article and here's what i think.  First a disclaimer, I've had 2 courses with Ayood and a bunch more with others.  I've read and make a point to re-read his books at least yearly.  Also, this article is dated...9mm being the most popular defense round...not anymore I expect.

I don't think the info is bad...just old.  I've sat through the legal stuff that Ayoob does and it made sense to me in the 90's. It may be different today.  I think the ammunition suggestions are valid and use them for myself.  The point that "Hollow points are safer for the assailant, as he is less likely to die than if he were shot with ball ammunition."  I'm reading this as the suggestion that one shoots an assailant with fewer of them than ball ammo, i.e., one or two HP's to stop a fight where 4 or 5 or more ball rounds are required.  I'm happy to report that I've never tested this on humans, nor do I ever wish to...but...my experience with hunting (not the same as self defense against those who can shoot back) is that a proper HP (usually Hoirnady XTPs) from a handgun can drop game faster than hard cast (an analogy to ball ammo) as hardcast, for me, usuallly results in an equally dead beast after some tracking.  The point I think is the time to the assailents failure to continue the fight or the animals failure to flee, I think...just me...an HP will hake this happen faster.

Anyway...in 09 there's better ammo available and one should carry what one is comfortable with...that's my 2 cents.  I think the article is worth the read, not the final word by any means.
If you like, please enjoy some of my hunt pics at:

http://public.fotki.com/DrDougRx

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