Author Topic: Sabots and patches  (Read 591 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 44-40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Sabots and patches
« on: January 29, 2009, 03:27:10 AM »
I've been doing alot of reading on this sight and as I would believe shooting a naked ball down a smooth bore will produce terrible accuracy, thus the sabot. Wouldn't a patched ball do the same to improve accuracy and be alot less fooling around? Just asking

Offline RocklockI

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2747
  • Gender: Male
  • Morko and Me
Re: Sabots and patches
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2009, 04:54:24 AM »
If you patch the ball and load after forgetting to put powder in.......thats a problem . Plus just like a muzzle loading rifle the fouling will build up and the worst thing you can do is get a ball stuck halfway down.

I guess THE worst thing would be to fire it !!! :o

I'm in the middle of testing sabots now . For your size gun you could get a dowel rod that fits and saw them to length  and drill them with a drill to make a concave .

rocklockI
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Sabots and patches
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2009, 05:22:51 AM »
Yes a patch ball would work better but there are problems. 

First because of the greater and greater size of cannon balls you will find it harder and harder to properly seat the ball due to the greater friction of the greater area of the greater circumference of the larger ball. The more the fouling the more the difficult to seat the ball.  if you can even seat the ball at all.You would problay need a sledge hammer to seat the ball. And heaven forbid if you had to pull the ball.   Cannoneers discovered the problem years ago and always provided windage.

The second problem is the dynamics of internal ballistics. If you tight seal these larger bores you will raise pressures substantially. Since pressures are measured in square inches think about the number of square inches in the chamber of a .50 cal chamber versus a 2 inch chamber. Now add resistance to the release of the pressure in the chamber. The larger resistance you had seating the ball now comes into play unseating or firing the ball.

This is also why in these larger bores lead balls are not recommended. The larger balls in lead require greater pressure to overcome the inertia of their greater mass versus balls of Zinc.  In our reference section we have posted a wonderful round ball weight calculator created by GGaskill.  Plug in some ever increasing diameters and sees how the weights substantially run up real fast. George's Round Ball Calculator http://lassengunsmithing.com/html/ShotWeight.htm.

Another factor is that the cannon is an area weapon.  They weren't intend to hit a pinpoint target.

Should you make a trip to to the East coast I strongly recommend you time your trip so you can go to Ft. Shenandoah and see the N-SSA nationals and the cannon shoots.  These guys don't use a patch. They aren't using a full 1/40 windage either, but windage they do have.  But the accuracy these guys and gals get is incredible. 




Offline Artilleryman

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1378
Re: Sabots and patches
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 06:39:23 AM »
I've been doing alot of reading on this sight and as I would believe shooting a naked ball down a smooth bore will produce terrible accuracy, thus the sabot. Wouldn't a patched ball do the same to improve accuracy and be alot less fooling around? Just asking

Don't expect rifle type accuracy from a smoothbore.  I think that your previous experience with blackpowder firearms is influencing your thinking about cannon shooting.  This is natural, and although some of the same procedures cross over from shooting small arms some don't. 

Speaking of small arms and accuracy, in the N-SSA we have smoothbore musket competition which forbids the use of a patch.   We are expected to be able to hit a 4 inch target at 25 yds, and a 6 inch target at 50 yds. 

Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline 44-40

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Sabots and patches
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2009, 07:15:04 AM »
It sounds like the only hope for accuracy from a smooth bore is with a sabot, next question, my ball mold is 3 cavity, 4,5,and 6 oz, 6 being close to 1.20".My bore is 1.25". The 4 oz ball is just over an inch, if I shoot sabots is there any reason not to shoot the 1" saboted ball out of a 1.250" bore? Does anyone else do this?

Offline Double D

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12609
  • SAMCC cannon by Brooks-USA
    • South African Miniature Cannon Club
Re: Sabots and patches
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2009, 08:07:07 AM »
No, no reason not to shot 1 inch saboted balls out of a 1.25 bore.  You will hit the ground consistantly, just not is the same spot very often.

The Sabot is not going to cure all the ills.

Offline GGaskill

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5668
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sabots and patches
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2009, 03:03:44 PM »
A 1.200" ball in a 1.250" bore should be OK.  After you have fired a shot, try rolling a 1.2" ball into the bore and see if it goes all the way to the bottom.  If it does with the fouling still there since you didn't sponge, you're OK.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill