Author Topic: WTB my first muzzleloader (Read 2287 times)

mike4 · « **on:** January 05, 2009, 11:35:22 AM »

I'm looking to buy my first muzzleloader but having some trouble. I'm on a budget but i want a quality gun that will be consistant. any help will be appreciated thanks

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2009, 04:27:00 AM »

You leave a number of questions unanswered, what is your budget and what type do you want.
Right now with the off season you can get some real good deals on muzzleloaders. Walley world has close outs on all theirs.
I have two that I really like and both are well made. I have a CVA bought new hunter bolt mag 209 45 cal for 100.00 with optic sights and also have a thompson triump in 50 cal which I picked up new from eds contenders for 350.00 both are now scoped and shoot very well. I also saw a CVA new in 45 cal hunter bolt mag at the last gun show for 80.00. If you want to spend more there is the encore but they are around 500.00.
With a little more info we can give you a better answer. Also do you wont inline or flintlock or precussion?
Deaconllb

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2009, 04:59:03 AM »

Walmart has some great deals on T/C Triumphs & Omegas right now. I'd stick with either Knight, T/C, or Savage.

tn_junk · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2009, 05:16:23 AM »

I had a Wolfe (CVA) when they first came out. Nice little gun. Accurate and reasonable recoil.
I came on a chance to buy a whing-ding super TC Encore 209x50. Sold the Wolfe.
Worked with the Encore for six months and never did get it to shoot any better than the
Wolfe.
A $150 gun will kill deer just as dead as a $600 gun. Cabelas has the Wolfe on sale now.

alan

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2009, 07:07:04 PM »

First check your regulations for states that you intend to hunt. Not all states allow all muzzleloaders. Once that is settled determine what action you like; sidelock, sliding bolt, break action, dropping or falling block, rotating block, bolt action. Then go handle as many as you can to find what feels the best for you. Then come back and ask more questions. As far as consistent, all of the modern muzzleloaders will be consistent if you are and have found a load that your particular rifle likes the best. This is not a quick project in many cases. You will have to spend some time with your rifle to make it consistent (most of that is actually your responsibility and requires consistency on your part when loading and shooting). Knight and T/C are the main American brand rifles being sold although CVA outsells all of them and they make a decent rifle that has improved a lot in the last few years. Due to the development of both rifles and substitute black powders as well as projectiles in recent years the number of variables has increased from ten years ago. If you want to just buy a simple muzzleloader and go shoot you may be unhappy as it requires some time with the rifle to really be confident and consistent. Getting there is half the fun.

alleyyooper · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2009, 03:50:51 AM »

I love this type of question.

Ultimate Firearms, Inc.
Ultimate Firearms makes the BP Xpress, the Ultimate Muzzleloader, the world's best custom muzzeloader. With velocities approaching 2400 feet per second (fps) with a 300 grain bullet (with 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets), the ability to burn up to 4, 50 grain pyrodex pellets (200 grains!), and an easy, 2 minute cleanup, this is truly a scientifically engineered, long range muzzleloader that harbors tremendous accuracy and power.

Recently won the NRA ML unlimited championship this past week and also took first and second in the hunter championship. The great thing about this whole shoot was we were shooting against guns that were made just for that shoot and ours was an off-the-shelf gun shooting Triple 7 and sabots. The bore size guns didn't have a chance and they were all different calibers... from 30 caliber on up. We still guarantee MOA @ 500 yards with a 1000 ft lbs of energy.
Put 'Em in a Pile at a Quarter Mile!
The Ultimate Muzzleloader by Ultimate Firearms, Inc. has documented kills on big game well in excess of 500 yards. If you are a competent shooter, this gun will do it! Read about us in, The Ultimate Precision Muzzleloader (197Kb PDF), an article that Jungle Jim Scott wrote for an upcoming issue of Precision Shooting Magazine. The Ultimate Muzzleloader is custom made for the discriminating hunter looking to maximize his shooting potential and hunting effectiveness. Use our muzzleloader and see if that buck 300 yards across that cut bean field gets away from you this fall!

Safe & Reliable
The Ultimate Muzzleloader has been subjected to just over 125,000 psi breech pressures. That amount would cause failure in most any other muzzleloader. The rifle has a lugged, locking bolt with two blow by ports to prevent any primer blowback. Due to the patented ignition system, there are no gases expelled through the breech plug.

Easy Priming!
The Ultimate Muzzleloader is primed with our unique, patented, .45 caliber brass casing with a magnum rifle primer which is ten times hotter than a .209 primer. No more having to load those tiny little caps or .209's, simply lay the .45 casing in the chamber and rack it forward. The casing surrounds the nipple, meaning no blow back! You get clean casings each shot that can simply be reprimed and used again.

Cleans Like a Centerfire
Gone are the days of removing breech plugs and scrubbing tiny parts. The Ultimate Muzzeloader is scientifically engineered to such tight tolerances that there is no fouling blown down the threads during ignition, thus no need to remove it and clean it! Simply clean this muzzleloader from the bore as you would other weapons. Two to three patches in between shots (for maximum accuracy) takes barely a minute...just watch our cleaning video for proof!

Blowing the Competition Away
The Omega, Disc Extreme, Pro Hunter... Knight, Thompson Center, Savage, White... no other muzzleloader matches up. Our Ultimate Muzzleloader will consistently out-shoot and out perform any other muzzleloader on the market today. Others may say theirs is the ultimate muzzleloader but how many of their weapons are dropping whitetails at 300 yards and beyond? Check out these detailed muzzleloader ballistics from our recommended Fury Bullet and the Ultimate Muzzleloader.

thats the one to buy.

Al

dmurphy317 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:03:12 AM »

I'm not sure that a starting price of $1600 is what I would call buying on a budget. I'm sure the Ultimate is a good rifle and it sure has impressive specs, but good specs are easier to write than to match. If you extend the ballistics chart they have on the website, you'll find that at 500 yards it only has about 900 fpe at 500 yards and drops close to 90 inches at that range. For a better comparison you should look at the max point blank range of their load compared to other guns and loads. For example, I have a load for a 300 grain SST for my CVA that gives me a MPB range of right at 190 yards where the Ultimate has about a 220 yard MPB range with the load listed on their website. Sure its 30 or so yards further than my load but my bullet is heavier and going just under 2000 fps. With a max load 200 grain SST, I end up with around a 230 yard MPB range and almost identical trajectory to their published load with about 250 FP less energy at 500 yards. I can do a lot of testing for the $1400 I saved on the gun.

Again, I'm not bashing the Ultimate guns, I'm just pointing out there are lower priced guns that can and do perform at more than adequate levels within the general ranges that 99.9% of game are shot at.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:10:39 AM »

I don't believe the Knight LRH or the Savage ML-II can be beat at any price.

JPSaxMan · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:17:56 AM »

Traditions makes a great muzzleloader. Their Hawken model has always served me well; accurate, reliable, and not a really expensive gun. Again, though, as others have mentioned, there are many things to be considered. Best of luck, muzzleloading is a great sport to get into!

alleyyooper · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2009, 03:27:25 AM »

Person just stated they had a buget. The buget could be based on an income of $150,000.00 a year so was not stated as to make us with an income of $24,000.00 a year feel bad.

Thats why I like this type of question so much.

Who knows the laws in the state where the person lives? No location listed with out checking the profile and many times not there either.

Who knows the build of the person, tall, short, fat, or skinny?

Every one has their idea of what they like, How does that fit any one else?

Lots of people like the T/C Omega. I hated it. It gets bitter cold where I hunt during ML season, that trigger guard on the omega is just to small for my fingers with a glove on, cocked or other wise.

So the Ultimate Firearm is as good a choice as any other. No I don't own one. Wish I could though but a buget based on a $24,000.00 a year does not allow such things. Even a T/C pro hunter is out of reach of my buget.

Al

buffermop · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2009, 04:36:47 AM »

The best thing to do is look for something used at the local gun shop on a budget. Off season pickings are outstanding and reasonable.

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2009, 04:37:06 AM »

I'd rather spend less, and have a rifle made by a company that will still be in business a year or 2 from now.

alleyyooper · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2009, 10:43:07 AM »

A rifle made by a company that will still be in business a year or 2 from now.

What company pray tell is that going to be?
Remington Muzzle loaders are not made by them any more.
Winchester Muzzle loaders are not made by them any more.
T/C is no longer a pure T/C company but owned by another company.
Knight recently packed up and made a major move to another state, Are they still a pure Knight company?

Seems about all the rest are owned by BPI or made by them.

I also like the buying used Idea but my buget is based on 24,000 a year which I might get to have a few dollars of after food clothing and houseing.

Al

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2009, 11:08:35 AM »

Remington Muzzleloaders are not made anymore.
Winchester Muzzleloaders are not made anymore. (they never were made by Winchester.

Savage makes an excellent product.
I recently bought a really nice stainless MK-85 Knight for $100.00. They are a good solid company.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2009, 11:51:18 AM »

$1,600 for a muzzleloader would buy me a nice curly maple, long barreled flinter. Not a smokeless muzzy. Plenty of good muzzleloaders out there that are easy on the wallet.

mike4 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:12:27 PM »

well thanks for all the good advice. My budget is no more than 200 and as some of you have said i wont have a problem finding a quality muzzle loader at that price. I also live in New Mexico and will be hunting mule deer. also i do not know what type I'm going to get......savage is sounding pretty good but not sure yet
thanks again mike

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:14:32 PM »

For $200.00, I'd look for a used stainless Knight MK85 on Gunbroker or Auctionarms.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:34:42 PM »

what part of new mexico Mike? My sister and brother in law live in Raton and im an hour north in colorado.

dmurphy317 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2009, 07:40:10 PM »

I'm in the Albuquerque area. Where are you?

mike4 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:14:33 AM »

Im in the Clovis area

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:52:39 AM »

my bro in law does a lot of patrolling down there.

Have you picked a ML yet?

ferryboatcaptain · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:29:51 AM »

I BOUGHT A STAINLESS h & R SIDEKICK .50 CAL FOR 199.00 FROM CABELAS A COUPLE MONTHS AGO,
MADE IN THE USA, BREAK OPEN SO ITS SUPER EASY TO CLEAN AND STAINLESS SEEMS TO BE BETTER IN A MUZZLELOADER, TO ME ANYWAY, THEY WHERE HAVING A SPECIAL ON SHIPPING [2.95] SO FOR 201.95 THE SIDEKICK WAS DELIVERED TO MY FRONT DOOR.
LOOK AROUND YOU CAN FIND A GOOD GUN FOR WHAT YOU HAVE GOT TO SPEND.

I'VE GOT A REMINGTON 700 .50 CAL $ 125.00
2- MARLIN ML 50 CAL & 54 CAL $ 150.00 EACH
H & R SIDEKICK 50 CAL $ 201.95
ALL THESE ARE GOOD GUNS THAT DIDN'T COST THAT MUCH
BE CAREFULL MIKE ONCE YOU GET A ML YOU WILL WANT ANOTHER FBC

whackmnstackm1775 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2009, 08:39:25 AM »

pm sent concerning $200 muzzloader. please pm me if it did not go through.

mike4 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2009, 02:05:51 PM »

No bigblock I have not chosen my ml. You know how it is when you have the money and the next second you don't well that's me so I'm just waiting....
Wat does your bro do?

?

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2009, 04:43:58 PM »

my Brother in law is an officer for the department of transportation up in Raton

Money in the pocket one day and dust bunnies in the same pocket the next day. I know that all to well