OK...NOW what am I doing wrong???

[skarke]

I did it, I got proud of myself because I was turning out 230 grain .45 bullets fast and almost all were good bullets.

I said to myself, "what's so hard about this?"  Then, I tried to make the smaller 124 gr round nose .356 for the 9 mm.  I'm using the same type of mold, a Lee 6 cavity, that I use with near 100% good bullets in .452, only to have only 1 or 2 turn out in the 9mm.  Same bottom pour furnace, same handles, same wheel weight alloy, but not the same outcome.  That'll teach me to stay humble!

Anyways, where am I goofing up?

[Tom W.]

Sounds like the mold may need some serious cleaning / degreasing, and then perhaps smoking? The last mold I bought from Ranch Dog molds humbled me a bit. I ended up taking a nylon bore brush to the cavities and then smoking it, and wouldn't you just know.. it worked!

[Graybeard]

Without photos or as a minimum a good detailed description of what the bullets looked like that you are unhappy with it's kinda hard to do more than generalize. Moulds must be properly cleaned to cast good bullets. Some cavities NEVER cast good bullets I had one from SAECO like that no matter what it did it just refused to cast properly and the other cavity of the two cavity mould made beautiful bullets. I gladly returned that one to them after the review rather than purchase it.

A properly cut mould that has been cleaned correctly should not require smoking or use of any spray on cavity prep to cast properly. If it does then something else is wrong.

[D Crockett]

what I do when I get a new mould is take a can of carb or brake cleaner and a tooth brush and clean it real good . like Graybeard said you do not have to smoke it and if you put mould release on it it will make the bullet smaller that stuff will build up on you. And get your mould up to temp you should get good bullets then D Crockett

[wmurrell]

smaller bullets dont heat the mould as fast. pre heat the mould more or cast faster. W/O pics its hard to tell but just my guess

[skarke]

Yea, I guess that a bullet description might help, overlook that little detail (what, you guys haven't mastered the art of mental telepathy yet? ).

What is happening is that the cavities aren't filling all the way.  I increased my rate of pour to as fast as it can flow, but the bullets just aren't complete.  It seems that the bullets at the extreme ends are usually fine, but the ones in the middle of the mold are not filling to the base.  When I slow the rate of pour down, it gets worse.  I'm using aluminum molds.  The six cavity 228 gr round nose in 45 I get 5 or 6 good ones every pour.

I have cleaned the molds with brake fluid and a stiff nylon brush, then used mold release.

Still, no go.  It's a little frustrating, enough so to make me think that the aluminum cools too fast for the smaller bullets, but then again, I am a total neophyte, so that's just a guess.

[Graybeard]

The mould might not be clean enough. That is still a major cause of bullets not filling out well. It could be your alloy needs a bit more tin to help fill out as well. You might try increasing the temp of your allow to add more heat to the mould but also preheat it. Aluminum doesn't hold heat as well as cast iron or brass. I'd not use that mould spray crap myself if you gotta do something just smoke them but if they are properly made, clean and up to temp nothing should be required.

[Sweetwater]

GB and Others....
Perhaps a little synopsis of what constitutes "proper cleaning of a mold" for the unitiated. I've just recently re-activated my casting outfit. In Wyoming, it could sit for years and be clean as a whistle. Up here in North Idaho, the humidity is high enough to create quite a bit of contamination in the molds, in the form of rust and possibly a build up of Mold Prep - a release agent I used years ago, from NEI.
I wouldn't mind a bit of educatin'!

Regards,
Sweetwater

[skarke]

GB, I'll do what you said.  They'll be Spic and Span upon my next session, and see what happens.  The only reason I used the release on the others is lee recommends smoking their molds, and I do remember casting some Lee minis that stuck a little without it.

I'm gonna try the raw mold, clean as I can get it, and see if that fixes it.

I will say that the release agent on the other mold makes fabulous bullets, but they are much larger and heavier.  If they try to stick on the 9mm, I'll carefully smoke the molds, and try the other fixes like more tin, etc.  If nothing works, I'll sell the molds and try a different type.  What are most popular for the 9mm for plate shooting (i.e. the 125 gn sizes)?

[lrrice]

As wmurrell said, it may be something as simple as heat.  My .40 caliber lee 6 cavity mold has to be piping hot before it starts casting good bullets.  The instructions will also say something about touching the mold on a damp cloth to keep it from getting too hot.  I have not been able to cast fast enough to need to do that.  Like you, on my first run I kept stopping to smoke the mold and try to clean it and nothing helped.  This just kept letting the mold cool more.  I finally just started casting as fast as I could lo and behold after a dozen or so rounds, it took off and really started casting good.  I put 10 lbs of wheel weights through it then without further problems.  BTW, If I hold the mold directly against the nipple on the bottom of the pot it wont fill correctly either.  I hold the mold 1/4" below the nipple and fill the mold until there is a puddle of lead on top of the sprue plate.  As a matter of fact, I dribble lead all the way to the next hole, that way when you cut the sprue, all the sprues come off as one unit and can be place directly back into the pot.

[bilmac]

I think Irrice may have put his finger on the problem. If the mold wasn't getting hot enough it would be the center holes that filled and the ends that wouldn't.

 I think you probably have a venting problem. I fill my molds the way he describes, in fact on molds that I use a lot, I grind a trough between the holes in the sprue plate. Then when you fill it you hold it at an angle and as a hole fills the lead runs toward the next hole and you move the mold so that the stream is going into that hole and so on down the line. Takes some practice to get the rhythm, but if you do it right, you have one nice one piece sprue that falls off the plate easily and a mold full of good bullets.

[jhalcott]

  I have a couple Lee six holers. I have had no problems with them (tap wood)! After cleaning them and smoking the cavities with a wooden match, I place them on the top of the pot to heat up as I melt the alloy. If the 2nd pour isn't a success, I start looking for a problem. These are as small as 7mm and 30 caliber. My 35 caliber drops perfect bullets from the first pour MOST of the time. Cold breezy days are an exception,I often have a few problems then. I also have about an inch between the mold and spout whike casting. I use a small brick as a rest for the mold.This ensures a constant distance the alloy must flow to get into the cavity. I keep a thermometer in the pot to regulate heat. I try not to heat the melt more than neccessary.

[blhof]

I have also found the larger aluminum molds to fail if too cool.  I usually dip the end into the pot til the lead drops off and reheat after each emptying.  I have less problem with the large iron sets, but they take alot to get hot enough; usually about 4 pours to start casting right and then they start taking longer and longer to cool enough to drop. They both have their pluses and minuses.  Weight is a big factor after casting several rounds of bullets, the difference in iron and aluminum really tells then.

[skarke]

To all of you fine people, and especially master Obiwan Graybeard, I now have superclean molds with nothing but their raw surface exposed to the lead, and I am turning out gorgeous bullets.

You were spot on, GB!!!  I chunked the mold release, got to scrubbing with Brake Cleaner and a little of the leftover tce, and voila, perfection.  The only caviat is that I turned the temp up to frosty bullets, then backed down a touch, and I now get 5.8 out of six fine, sharp, shiny bullets.  Like so many of you said, I think I was working with too cool alloy with too much gunk, complicated by inexperience.

The moral of the story is....CLEAN, THEN CLEAN SOME MORE!!!  Then check the temp on the mold and the alloy.  Keep it fluxed, and even a newbee like me can turn out pretty good bullets.

Now, how do you get rid of crabgrass???

[Sweetwater]

Don't know about crabgrass (that may be a seperate topic! LOL)

But, I do know I might have learned something here, after all these years, so I thank you for raising the quesion in the first place. Good luck on your continued success in casting. It's a fun trip!

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Graybeard]

Now, how do you get rid of crabgrass??? 

Why ya wanna do that? If it weren't for weeds I'd have no grass at all. 

Unless there is a real problem with the mould all ya need to do is make it really squeaky clean and get the alloy and mould up to proper temperature and good bullets should result. Most of the time it really is that simple.

[Lloyd Smale]

this would be my suggestion. Lee 6 cavity molds cast there best when run hot and are making frosted bullets.

smaller bullets dont heat the mould as fast. pre heat the mould more or cast faster. W/O pics its hard to tell but just my guess

[bilmac]

I see no reason to dislike frosty bullets myself. They are always nice and sharp and I never see that they perform any poorer. I suppose the rub is that by running the temps that high, you are causing tin and/or antimony to come out of your mix.

[D Crockett]

ok now that you are getting good bullets I bet you are wondering how to stop that stuff on top of you  pot from forming buy the way it is your tin oxidising out of your lead well here a trick I learned some time back put cat litter on top of your melted lead and that will stop the oxidising D Crockett