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Offline PartsMan

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Barrel switch accuracy
« on: January 27, 2009, 07:16:33 AM »
I had fitted a used 308 barrel to my 223s receiver for a backup deer rifle.
Put the 223 barrel back on the other day and shot it to see how bad it was.
Only 3/4" high at 100yd!
Not bad. wold still hit a coyote anyway. :D

No torque wrenches or voodoo magic here. Just barrels and forearms that fit well.

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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 09:11:09 AM »
Glad its working well for you!!  I haven't seen any really radical POI shifts from mine either.

 I have a habit of checking them regularly and before the hunting season anyways. its part of the FUNN, huh!! My favorites are getting dedicated frames, just to minimize any shifts.  ::)

 CW
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Offline carbineman

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 03:32:53 AM »
Wouldn't disassembly to clean oil/solvent off the latch shelf qualify as the same type of procedure? It seems that almost everytime I clean my Toppers, the solvent gets on the ejector and down on the shelf latch.

To me diassembly or taking the barrel off the receiver is a common place event.
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Offline JerryKo

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 08:39:57 AM »
I had some that varied after cleaning or disassembly, so to clean I left the barrel on and opened the action.  With the ejector or extractor opened i put a couple patches between it and the barrel.  Keeps oils and solvents from getting that far.  Just my $.02 ;)  They had the plastic fore-ends tho,...probably why.  Who knows.  They are gone now. :'(


Jerry
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Offline dw06

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 08:59:22 AM »
Partsman, sounds like you got it figured out!
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 09:44:46 AM »
I think a lot of the inconsistent accuracy that Handi owners complain about is caused by oil running down the barrel and bore onto the latch and shelf while stored muzzle up, likely the reason for those complaints that they don't shoot consistent after storage, not to mention changing the screw torque when re-installing a barrel which is an entirely different issue that can result in the same inaccuracy.

Tim
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Offline Lazermule

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 10:06:12 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on January 28, 2009, 09:44:46 AM
I think a lot of the inconsistent accuracy that Handi owners complain about is caused by oil running down the barrel and bore onto the latch and shelf while stored muzzle up, likely the reason for those complaints that they don't shoot consistent after storage, not to mention changing the screw torque when re-installing a barrel which is an entirely different issue that can result in the same inaccuracy.

Tim

Ah, Haah....I've just figured out why your Handi's are all leaned up muzzle down in your photos.  I alway thought that it was sort of peculiar, but now I know why.  You probably explained it before, but me being a part timer here at best I probably missed it...

LAZER
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 10:12:58 AM »
Yes sir, have always done it with muzzleloaders for the same reason, oil runs down the bore and collects in the breech making conditions ripe for misfires when you least want them.  :'( There are lots of oldtimers that did it to prevent oil from soaking the stock too.  ;) Solvent can do the same thing at the range, drips/runs down from the chamber and onto the latch shelf, then gets on the latch itself. I also learned that using WD40 to rinse water out of the action after hunting in the rain can cause problems if you don't blow it out good afterwards.  ::)

Tim
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Offline gendoc

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 01:10:38 PM »
storing or just putting away until tomorow is a common practice with muzzle down here.
nothing new.......
its just one of those things that many people don't do.
and i would'nt put WD-40 on a bicycle chain.........
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Offline remfan

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2009, 04:52:00 PM »
so if i have 2 synthetic forends   for my   44  357   25-06  308 and 223   oring 'em   use an inch-lb torque wrench  with an allen head  forend  screw  in theory   POI should be close on barrel switches   right ???????
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2009, 01:31:33 AM »
Quote from: remfan on January 30, 2009, 04:52:00 PM
so if i have 2 synthetic for ends for my  44  357   25-06  308 and 223   oring 'em   use an inch-lb torque wrench  with an allen head  forend  screw  in theory   POI should be close on barrel switches   right ???????
Well.... It will def be better than if you didn't torque them. If your asking if it will fix all associated accuracy woes. The answer is no. Another option to better the accuracy advantage might be to get a forend for each barrel as many here have done. Then torque that each time you mount that barrel.

 Don't get me wrong, torquing is one of the best things we can do. Along with bedding the fore arm to its barrel and relieving binding. But the forearms and barrels are NOT identical so expecting identical results is not practical.

CW
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Offline remfan

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2009, 10:44:29 AM »
BUT   if i use    same forend for all ??????? hmmmm
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2009, 11:26:15 AM »
You can use the same forend, but if you make any changes to make one barrel shoot well, it may make another barrel shoot worse, if you want to use multiple barrels on one frame, it's best to have a dedicated forend for each barrel, that way you can make changes that won't affect another barrel's performance.  ;)

Tim
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Offline damascus-doug

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2009, 02:33:59 PM »

  Don't get me wrong, torquing is one of the best things we can do. Along with bedding the fore arm to its barrel and relieving binding. But the forearms and barrels are NOT identical so expecting identical results is not practical.
CW
[/quote]

I am waiting on my first H&R to come in this week and have read enough to confuse myself.  I have a Rem. 700 308 that is set on pillars and bedded with the barrel full floated so I understand what bedding does to a bolt action.  Now I am trying to fiqure out how to bed the fore end.  I know that I have a lot to understand about these rifles so please bear with me as I learn the art of single shots.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 03:09:37 PM »
There are several methods of working with the forend, several are in the FAQs and Help sticky, be sure to read them first.  ;)

Tim
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2009, 08:47:48 AM »
Quote from: damascus-doug on February 01, 2009, 02:33:59 PM
I am waiting on my first H&R to come in this week and have read enough to confuse myself.  I have a Rem. 700 308 that is set on pillars and bedded with the barrel full floated so I understand what bedding does to a bolt action.  Now I am trying to fiqure out how to bed the fore end.  I know that I have a lot to understand about these rifles so please bear with me as I learn the art of single shots.

I am waiting on my first H&R to come in this week and have read enough to confuse myself.  I have a Rem. 700 308 that is set on pillars and bedded with the barrel full floated so I understand what bedding does to a bolt action.  Now I am trying to figure out how to bed the fore end.  I know that I have a lot to understand about these rifles so please bear with me as I learn the art of single shots.
[/quote]

 Welcome DD!!!

 OK so you have at leas the basics down. That's good.
   You know that all bedding does is provide a stable platform for the firearm. Consistant contact provides consistant results. Because the handis forend is the only part that touches the barrel and its action is not housed on the stock. We only need to deal with the forend. You can pillar bed the forarm, you can float the forarm or you can bed the forarm. One will be right for you and your handi. Something all of these have in common is all need consistant torquing of the bolt and correct pressure at the frame. Notice the frequent use of "consistant"? It is tantamount in everything accuracy related regardless of what action type we are speaking about.

 Tim is spot on and he has done a mountain of work putting all the great posts into one place called the FAQ's. Its at the top pf the page for all to easily peruse. There truly is a wealth of information from a host of extremely knowledgeable authors all in one "handi" place.

Good luck,
 CW
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Offline striker525

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2009, 10:20:09 AM »
OK since the fore stock only touches the barrel at the lug, would it be fair to assume that one could play, so-to-speak with the spacer??? IE..... adjusting clearance and making sure everything is square??? Or would it not be a good thing to mess with? I'm replacing my spacers and trigger guards with brass ones and am wondering just how critical that clearance actually is????? or if it can be doctored to better the accuracy?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2009, 10:38:54 AM »
See FOREND FIT in the FAQs.  ;)

Tim
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Offline Dead doc

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Re: Barrel switch accuracy
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 03:43:08 AM »
On one of my frames I have  223; 30/30; 30/06/ and 45/70.  ALL have seperate fore-ends  INCLUDING two with Manlicher type fore-ends . I torque and they all shoot fine!  I do NOT like one fore-end for different barrels . JMHO
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