Author Topic: Marlin rifleing question?  (Read 712 times)

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Offline DEACONLLB

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Marlin rifleing question?
« on: March 06, 2009, 03:01:13 AM »
Would like to know what the difference is between micro rifleing and the Ballard rifleing? I see it is only offered in the marlin 444.
Deaconllb
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Fourth fighter wing K14 Kimpo Korea 1952 Fourth but first, the mig killers.
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Offline KAYR1

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Re: Marlin rifleing question?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 03:22:12 AM »
The micro rifling was something that I believe was used in earlier guns, for what reason, I do not know. The firifling on my Guide Gun, for instance has deep, Ballard cut rifling that lends itself to better accuracy with jacketed and lead bullet loads.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Marlin rifleing question?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 04:13:46 AM »
Whereas the so called "Ballard" style rifling may have six or eight grooves each about .004" deep, the Micro-grooves will have 8-12 narrow grooves only .002-003" deep. Marlin introduced the micro-groove barrels in 1956 and began phasing it out caliber by caliber over the past 20 years or so, beginning with the 1895 which had what they called "modified micro-groove". One style works as well as the other with jacketed bullets but there have been lots of complaints about micro-grooves from cast bullet shooters. The thinking now, and I can't personally confirm this, is that there is no problem with cast bullets in micro-grooves but that Marlin barrels tend to run oversize and so shoot poorly with cast bullets of standard size. The claimed solution is to measure the bore and size cast bullets at least .001" larger than the groove diameter, whatever that diameter may be. Again, I can't confirm that. I'm presently working with cast bullets in a 375 micro-groove Marlin and have yet to find the magic bullet.
 Don't take this as gospel but "I think" the .35 Remington is the only centerfire still using micro grooves. The .22's are still micro groove but there never was a complaint with the .22's, in fact most agree that Marlin .22's are above average in accuracy.
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Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: Marlin rifleing question?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 11:46:37 AM »
The 2008 gun digest list all marlins with micro groove barrels, with the marlin 444 listed as Ballard grooves. All My Marlins from very old to two new 336 one 30-30 and one 35 remington have the micro groove barrels.
So the number and depth of groves seem to be the difference.
Thanks
Deaconllb
Korean war vet. NRA Member
Fourth fighter wing K14 Kimpo Korea 1952 Fourth but first, the mig killers.
533rd material ,air defense Oxnard AFB 1953-1955
Pastor of the  CBCG-Fellowship group Tulsa Oklahoma.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Marlin rifleing question?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 01:46:14 PM »
I just checked the Marlin website and they list 30/30 and .35 Remington with micro grooves, 12 grooves. All others are described as "deep cut Ballard style rifling", six grooves. The .22's are listed as microgroove with 16 grooves. It seems strange that they can fit 16 grooves around the circumference of a .22 but only 12 in a .35 caliber. ;D
 Gun Digest probably hasn't upgraded their material in recent years but then websites aren't always right either.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Marlin rifleing question?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2009, 01:37:38 AM »
The Micro-groove rifling was 12 grooves with shallow lands.  It was originally offered in the 22 lr and was later added to many of the larger bore rifles marlin offered, including the 30-30, 35s, 444s and 45-70s. 

The complaints from cast bullet shooters eventually caused Marlin to offer Ballard rifling, which carried only 6 lands and grooves at about .004 deep.  The complaints about cast bullets being inaccurate or causing leading in the 12 groove (Micro groove) barrels was not due to the number of lands and grooves.  It was simply due to rough barrels, undersized cast slugs and a lack of awareness of how to make those Micro-groove barrels shoot accurately. 

There was a lot of research completed by Veral Smith, one of our Moderators here at GBO and one of his followers, Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets.  Veral found that fire-lapping or bore-lapping the micro groove barrels removed the roughness and obdurations often found in mass produced barrels and allowed them to shoot cast bullets more accurately without the leading problem when sized to properly fit the bore (.001 over bore diameter).  I believe that both Smith and Stanton found that if you gas-checked the cast bullets you were able to attain jacketed bullet accuracy and velocity with cast bullets.  Both Smith and Stanton went on to design heavy for the bore cast gas checked bullets for both the 444 and the 45-70, as well as lots of other calibers and lots of shooters started making the switch to cast gas checked bullets for those big bores.

Stanton in particular found his gas checked cast slugs to shoot incredibly accurately from his bore lapped rifles and used two specific Marlins in 444 to test his bullets and loads.  The results are pretty close to phenomenal and raise the lever action to near the same level of accuracy as fine bolt rifles.   One important note here is that the bores on Marlin rifles are often larger than some think.  All the bores on my 444s measured out to .431 or .432.  I bore-lapped all three rifles to .432" and shoot .432 diameter Beartooth bullets through mine.  .429" diameter jacketed 44 magnum or 444 Marlin slugs give very good accuracy but the cast slugs shoot better.  .429 diameter cast slugs, even gas checked, don't shoot fer squat outta my .432 barrels.

My 444s will group under 1" at 100 m, often with one hole groups, as long as I am benched, steady, unflinching and of calm peace of mind.  I scored one 3 hole group at near 1/2" from my shorty Timber Carbine with 335 gn Beartooth Bullets.  I will not lie and say it didn't pound the stuffin' outta me but man, that group was worth it.....

Marlin has learned from shooter experiences and offers Ballard rifling in many of its centerfire calibers.  However, these are still mass produced barrels and although the rifling is much more conducive to cast bullet shooting i would not hesitate to fire lap any Ballard rifled barrel for better accuracy.  JMTCW.  Mikey.


Offline brianscott12

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Re: Marlin rifleing question?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2009, 04:57:35 AM »
I just checked the Marlin website and they list 30/30 and .35 Remington with micro grooves, 12 grooves. All others are described as "deep cut Ballard style rifling", six grooves. The .22's are listed as microgroove with 16 grooves. It seems strange that they can fit 16 grooves around the circumference of a .22 but only 12 in a .35 caliber. ;D
 Gun Digest probably hasn't upgraded their material in recent years but then websites aren't always right either.
Coyotejoe youf info is correct, i'm sittin here lookin at a 2009 Marlin catalogue as I speak, type. :D
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