Does this make sense?

[jlgwiz]

First of all I am new to reloading.  I decided to get into reloading to develope a loading for my 30-06.  I have tried many commercial offerings and could not get the groupings I wanted (they were all over 2 inches some way over).  I chose a 165gr Speer Hot-core spitzer and Win 760.  Why, both were available and I read some favorable reviews.  Bought a Lee Loader and a small electronic scale,Lee trimmer for 30-06, case neck deburring tool, primer pocket cleaner and used some of my brass from eariler testing.  Loaded up  starting at 51gr up to 55gr in .5 increments.  52gr and 54gr looked good (1.25-1.5 in),  all loads went "boom" and none went "kaboom".  I stopped at 55gr because the primers appeared to be flatting out.  At this point a friend gave me his old Lee press and set of dies and since the cases were getting difficult to chamber,  I resized them.  I loaded the die according to instructions and went about the process of loading some more at 52gr and 54 gr.  The results were not nearly as good as the previous try at these measures and to my eyes it looked as if the primers were a little flat at 54gr (happened at 55gr before).  Checked the scale, it seemed ok, my prep was the same except for the resizing.   Bought a case headspace/lenght guage.  Well the unfired resized cases were right at the lower of the two levels on the scale but the fired rounds were noticibly above the top line.  I am reading this as my rifle has too much headspace to bring the cases back to standard headspace lenght. So I reset the die to resize the case to just a little under the level (in the guage) of the fired case.  The cases I resized to this level will chamber in my gun but it takes a little more force. Nothing extreme,  you can do it with your thumb, it just that it is noticible.  I have not loaded the cases yet,  I wanted to get some opinions of people with more experience that me, is my line of reasoning OK or off base?  I figured this way I could offset the appearenly large headspace of the rifle by not pushing the shoulder back much. I of course did not come up with this all on my own but pieced together info from the net,  but as we all know the net sometimes lies or is at least misleading.   At some time in the future I will get the headspace of the rifle checked and corrected if it is out too much (it is a Stevens so should not be too difficult for some who knows what they are doing),  in case I want to sell the rifle.

          Thanks
           jlgwiz

[stimpylu32]

jigwiz

Sounds like you have a perty good handle on the issue , and yes it sounds like you have a slight headspace problem but not a mojor problem , this can be addressed by just neck sizing or part FL sizing were you just size the neck and the upper part of the case while not bumping the sholder back .

I had a 25/06 that did the same thing , but once the cases were fire formed to match the chamber it shot like a dream , just remember that no 2 chambers are cut the same and no 2 dies are cut the same either .

stimpy

[Catfish]

Without seeing what you have I could not be sure about the head space, but once you have fired a case in your gun it will be head spaced to your chamber, unless you are running hot loads in which case it will be alittle long. When I am loading ammo that I know that the rifle the cases were fired in is the rifle that will be shooting the ammo I prefer to neck size only. What Stimpy said about partical sizeing with a FL die does not always work. You will not know untill you try, but if your chamber is over sized you will push a ring down the brass and it could be to large to let the round chamber if you do not push it all the way to the head of the brass. I have run into this with a couple of custom chambered gun.

[jlgwiz]

 Thank You for the replies.  Now I have about 30 pieces of new brass I need to form to the chamber. I guess I just load them on the lighter side, say 52gr of 760 and fire them?

           jlgwiz

[Sweetwater]

Good advice posted.
I might add to be very mindful of resetting the shoulder while sizing. It should fit your rifle as fired and will control your headspacing. (you could look at it as having created a wildcat as long as you leave the case sized to fit your chamber - not sized to fit your die) A little resistance when closing the bolt on your rifle is OK. If you have to stop and think about it, then that is probably too much resistance. I simply adjust the die, sort of like Stimpy said, so I only come down about halfway or a bit more on the neck. This, for me, provides enough bullet tension for proper combustion and prevents any shoulder setback issues. The die is tapered and won't hardly touch the case, unless the die is way smaller than the fired case.
Remember, the more you 'work' the case, the shorter it will live. You may find a neck-sizing die to be more advantageous than a FL die, especially if your fired cases are appreciably larger than SPECS. I have one chamber that is tight, so i have to take a different tack with it.
As posted, all chambers are different and all dies are different and what we have to do is find what works.

Your new brass can get the same load as the rest of your brass. It will fireform with delight.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[BBF]

If you are near a gunsmith he should have a set of GO  NO-GO gauges. If that checks out then do as above.

[wncchester]

Chamber headspace means nothing to a competent handloader, or at least it shouldn't. 

IF we adjust our sizers PROPERLY, not just blindly going along with the "instructions" to set the die to touch the shell holder and another quarter, or half, turn, the actual chamber dimensions won't matter at all.   Ammo that has excessive headspace due to over resizing will frequently produce flat primers that look like over pressure loads.

Size this way:  Adjust the die to touch the shell holder and back it OUT a quarter turn, no more, that allows us about 16 thou to work with the shoulder.  Size a fired case and see if it will chamber.  It probably - or shouldn't - chamber very easily.  Turn the die down 1/16th of a turn and no more!  That much of a turn moves the shoulder about 4 thou, about half of the normal full range of tolerance for headspace.  (The usually suggested "small" quarter turn movements, being about 18 thou, are FAR to massive for this adjustment!)  Size the case and try the chamber fit again.  Keep trying until the bolt closes with just a hint of resistance and lock the die ring at that point.  You will be good to go and have no excess headspace in your loaded ammo, no matter the actual chamber length.

It's easier to set the die correctly using a means of measuring the fired cases and then carefully setting the size die to move the shoulder back no more than 2-3 thou, on average.  (Brass springback varies, so it will never be truly consistant from case to case!)  Both the RCBS Precision Case Mic or the Hornady LnL case measureing tools work nicely.

[jlgwiz]

   Thanks Again for the replies.  Wncchester,  I think I have more or less done what you proposed,  push the shoulder back a little from fired diminsions. So I am going to load up some of the newly reized fired cases and see what happens.  I will also be loading up some of the new brass to form to my chamber.

      jlgwiz

[wncchester]

Good deal.  Now, come back and let us know how it went, to close this thread if nothing else!   

[jlgwiz]

  It may be a while before I get to try them.  The range here in Galveston got damaged by Ike and may not open for a time.  There is one in Texas City I need to find out about.  Otherwise I will have to wait till I go back up the country,  my brother-in-law has a range on his property.  Thanks Again.
          jlgwiz