Good Morning Montana on this Friday the 13 th !

[1Southpaw]

It's 14 degrees , light snow , north breeze .

Jack the Wonder Airedale made his rounds and is back naping @ my feet . He loved playing in the snow much as I did as a kid . He is 11 now and the snow is no longer that much fun for an old dog .

He used to come in looking like this .

 He has to sniff out every fresh trail in the yard.
Deer and Coyotes visit every evening /day   Deer for the grain I put out , coyotes for the birds the grain attracts. 
You all have a fine day 

[Double D]

Good Morning Southpaw and Jack the wonder dog!,  Good morning Montanan, dpe, Forster, Torpedoman, MT_Sourdough, Pab1, Skunk and AtlLaw.

12 degrees and snowing here in Cut Bank. We got about 4 inches over night,

The Wife came down stairs a few minutes ago and in no uncertain terms told me I would not go out and try and shovel snow.  Did the usual martyr routine,  "I can do it"  "I'll use the shovel for balance"  But she was insistant, so I let her have here way. Yes Dear!  Some times it's nice she is a tyrant.

 

[Mt_Sourdough]

You all remind me that I live in Montana's banana belt.  Right now at 10 am, its about 20 outside, but the sun is brilliant like the promise of longer and warmer days on the way.   
  I have taken some heat in a thread in the bolt action forum.  People assume that 400 yard shooting is for lazy people or non-hunters.  I believe that perception of distance somehow changes based on region of this country people are in.  Most people I know, do not consider 400 yard shots to be excessively long.  Most shots taken are much shorter, but 400 yards in right conditions is not hair brained.
  So my question to you all, as fellow Montanans, what do you consider a long shot and what is your excepted shootable distance?

[Double D]

Good question MT_Sourdough

I consider 400 yards a long range shoot.  I consider anything over 300 yards long range. That being said, I know it is not unusual especially here on the open prairie to be presented with a 400 yard shot.  It is more usual to be presented with a 100 yard shot.  I have made a 400 yard shoot here in Montana. I know my rifle and where to shoot at 400 yards.  I zero my rifle 260 yards.  Just under 4 inches high at 100 yards. This gives me a 300 yard point blank range (5 inches plus, 5 inches minus ) zero at 260 yards. A 400 yard shot will require me to hold 21 inches over center.   Chancy shot for my .338 Federal Ackley Improved.

When I sight my rifle in I start at 100 yards set it up to hit just under 4 inches.  Then it shot at 260 to see if it is zero.  The I shoot at the 50 yard 300, 400 and 500 yard targets and se where my shots go.  Eye opening.  Computer/paper ballistics do not match range ballistics.

I spotted my Mule Buck this year about 800 yards.  I was able to work in to 65 yards for the shot.  Took over an hour for me to get there.



The Whitetail doe was spotted 1/2 mile away. Took me about 20 minutes to move within 50 yards of her. When I got there she busted me ran about 40 yards and stopped and looked back. Mistake.



Just as a side note had I been sighted for the longer range there is a good chance I would have over shot both deer.  I sight my guns in for the higher percentage shot not the longer shot.  But I know where it shoots longer range.

 
I always make every effort to get closer, but know there are times when it just can't be done. But I am always ready for the longer shoot.

[Forster]

I consider 400yds a long shot, but doable as you said in the right conditions (like no wind).  But to me it's not worth it to shoot that far as I really, really don't want to risk wounding an animal.  Same reason I will never take a head/neck shot unless it is to finish an animal.  I want a high percentage shot to the boiler room at fairly close range (200yds or less) or I pass, but that's just me.

[Mt_Sourdough]

Well Doug, thanks for the reply.  I know I cant see all the terrain around you (as in 360 degrees), but that looks like some impressive stalking in such wide open country.   You were obviously aided by all that camoflauge that you are wearing. 
  To Doug and Forster, I must admit, that is why I am still more of a student than a teacher here.  Like most students, I do have my own opinions, but I am here to learn.  Besides, despite being the home of the RMEF and B&C club, Missoula isnt the easiest place to find a friendly conversation about hunting.  I love my friends around here, good people, but they are not hunters.
  I grew up hunting in my teen years and in to my early 20's. I lived in Browns Gulch north of Butte.  Great hunting turf, but I was the only hunter in my family and I never had a great deal of learnin'bout hunting as I always hunted alone.  Needless to say, I made all the mistakes.  Like spending all day trying to catch elk by chasing them.  I did have my successes and learned a lot.  The most important thing I learned was that I had a lot yet to learn. 
  I stopped hunting in my early twenties and didnt touch another gun for about 15 years.   
  Three years ago, I decided to get back into it, but I told myself then that I would do it right this time around.  So I talk to anyone who will talk to me about hunting, I read anything I can get my hands on and I spend as much time as I can in the field observing and learning from those critters.  I am pretty much obsessed at this point.
  Most of my friends that I have hunted with from Butte, are not what I call truly accomplished hunters.  They talk about 5, 6, and 7 hundred yard shots as "do-able".  I am a good shot and have shot mulies at ranges between 3 to 4 hundred yards (around Melrose, Dillon and Silverstar areas).  My longest sucsessful shot to date on an elk is about 300 yards.   With that said, I know I have killed animals in my earlier hunting life that I never got to put in the freezer.  (shameful!!!) That is one of the major reasons why I got away from hunting.  And that is why I told myself that I will be a different kind of hunter this time around.
  I guess, what I should learn from all this, as I sit here and reflect upon it, is that shooting long shots is a gamble.  And, Like gambling, getting lucky a few times early on can lead to a lifetime of a bad habits and possible regret. 

just for the record, I don't gamble with money. 

[1Southpaw]

We have just a trace , maybe 1/4" 
We were thinking of driving over your way today . Sort of wondering if a wind came up we would be in a granddaddy of a Ground Blizzard .
Promised wife Pizza from Coopers ... best in the west  :>)
Early Valentines Day gift.  Can't go tomorrow home ball game with Granddaughter playing.

Long shots ..... Ground squirrel's only    Longest shot with my 17HMR was 317 yards. Lazerd with my Leica 1200 . It was about a $1.70 gopher . 10 shots ...
Fortunately it was a real stupid rodent or I was so far away it couldn't figure out where I was 
It was across an coulée and in a nice soft dirt field . Could see the rounds hit and walked my way in . Variable cross winds made it sort of guessy .   Jack couldn't see what I was shooting @ and was a bit antsy to "go get it "
 

[dpe.ahoy]

I've made a few shots longer than 400 yd, but I will low-crawl to get closer now.  Fact is I did just that this year for a nice doe.  I would say most of my shots are under 200 yd, but where I bought some land, you can see game miles away with good glass.  Out of the 7 deer I took off it this fall, all were under 200 yd.  One was about 25.  Older and wiser, (I hope). The weather stayed in the 20's in Billings today, just had a light skiff of snow on the ground this morning.  Just gettin' ready to lock up an go home.  Everyone have a good weekend, I'm working .  DP

[Double D]

Coopers?  You mean over by the penquin?  Best pizza in the west is near right!!

[Cottonwood]

If I get me a rifle that shoots like that again, it will have to have a good bipod on it, as I can not shoot off hand any longer.