R.E.A.L. bullet in cap and ball

[rio grande]

Anybody got any experience using the Lee REAL bullet in a cap and ball revolver?
I want to try the 200 gr. in my Remington .44.
THANKS

[Gatofeo]

The Lee REAL (Rifling Engraved At Loading) is meant for rifles, not revolvers.
It has very narrow obturating bands around its circumference, that engage the rifling slighty when it's pushed down a rifle bore.
Using this bullet in a cap and ball revolver would, I believe, be an exercise in frustration.
I'm unsure of its typical cast diameter but I suspect it's around .450 inch for the .45-caliber version (this design is also offered in .50 caliber).

When using conical bullets in cap and ball revolvers, it is imperative that the bullet be seated straight into the chamber. This is nearly impossible unless the bullet has a heel -- a rebated portion of its base.
Picture the bullet in profile as a short stack of dimes, upon which a longer stack of nickels rest. The smaller, "dime" section is the heel that slips into the chamber; the remainder of the bullet is the larger "nickels."
This heel is necessary to start the bullet straight into the chamber.
I've tried bullets without a heel and it's rare to get such a bullet started straight. Bullets not seated straight are inaccurate.

Frankly, I don't see much point in using Lee's REAL bullet. Lee also offers a 200-grain .44-caliber bullet mould made specifically for cap and ball revolvers. It has a heel and, among conical bullets, is one of the more accurate.
But in my experience, no conical bullet is as accurate as the customary lead ball.
In my own Uberti-made 1858 Remington, from a benchrest, I can often get six .454 inch balls to go into a 2 or 3-inch circle at 25 yards. With the same pistol, the Lee conical bullet will group into 4 or 5 inches, sometimes even larger.

Another point: You may find it difficult to get the Lee REAL bullet under the rammer. There is only so much space, and even conical bullets made for cap and ball revolvers are often a close fit.

If you could get the REAL bullet into the chamber, I'd also be concerned about those skinny obturating bands. They may not hold the bullet in place during recoil, allowing the bullet to shift forward. This might expose the powder behind the bullet to flame, which could lead to a multiple ignition or "chain fire."

If you want to experiment with conical bullets, it would be best to order a variety of them from a caster. Dixie Gun works is also an excellent source of conical bullets designed as duplicates of the original.

If you still want to try a Lee REAL bullet in your revolver, I'd suggest you charge only one chamber, then see if you can get the bullet in the chamber. If you do, the bullet should seat with a fair amount of resistance, even to the point of shaving off lead from its sides.
Place a cap on the loaded chamber and try it.
Of course, you'll need to lubricate the bullet before seating. Any of the commercial black powder lubricants, such as Bore Butter would work, or even Crisco.

Until you can determine how tight that REAL bullet seats in the chamber, I'd test it one chamber at a time. This would avoid multiple ignition.

Let us know what you learn.

[hrminer92]

What about projectiles normally used for a .45 LC?

I have a few .452 240gr projectiles that were given to me and since I don't have a .45 colt (yet), I was wondering if they would work with my .44 c&b reproduction.  The bases of the bullets are pretty square, so it sounds like it would be difficult to get them to fit straight into the chamber w/o a heel.  Is that a correct assumption?

[blhof]

As you stated 45 Colt bullets are .452 and most 44 C&B pistold use either 454 or larger bullets.  What is your ball diameter?  It needs to be as close to the ball as possible for a tight fit.

[coyotejoe]

If you happen to have some R.E.A.L bullets on hand you could give them a try, they might work just fine. The driving bands are tapered so that at least the first band will slip into a .45 caliber bore without engagement, then each succeeding band is a few thousandths larger. I suspect it could work but I'd not rush out and buy a mold just to try it.
  I too have generally gotten better accuracy with round balls. However, the very best I've ever seen from a revolver was with a Euroarms 1858 Remington using a short wadcutter bullet which would often give me honest one inch groups at 25 yards. Those bullets were cast from a Lee mold no longer available and which I foolishly traded off with the gun long ago. They cast about .455" and weighed 172 grains IIRC. For some reason they shot best loaded backward, base to the front.
 One reason most revolver shoot balls better than bullets is the rifling twist. The standard twist for .45 Colt is one turn in 16 inches. Most cap & ball revolver have a twist of 32" or slower, not really enough RPMs to stabilize a long bullet.
 Civil war soldiers and surgeons agreed that the round ball was more deadly and a better man stopper because of the more blunt shape compared to the pointed bullets the Union issued. I suspect the higher velocity of the round ball was also a factor not understood nor appreciated at the time. For whatever reason, they felt the .36 roundball was a better stopper than the pointed .44 caliber bullet.

[Gatofeo]

One of the biggest obstacles to using any conical bullet in a cap and ball revolver -- perhaps the biggest obstacle -- is the need to start the bullet straight into the chamber.
With balls this is not a problem, they're self-centering. Conical bullets almost always require a sub-diameter base or heel that slips easily and partly into the chamber mouth, to ensure a straight start on the bullet. The remainder of the bullet is larger diameter, so that when it's rammed it not only seals off the chamber from multiple ignition, but clings tightly to the walls of the chamber so it doesn't move during the recoil caused by other chambers being fired.
Unless designed specifically for cap and ball sixguns, most bullets are straight-sided. Trying to get the bullet perfectly aligned, in axis with the chamber, and then ramming it straight is nearly impossible. As soon as the rammer applies a little force to the bullet's nose, the bullet wants to tip over to the side.
Various physical laws, as well more than a few supernatural ones involving gremlins, the whims of the gods, and ancient family curses seem to work against seating the unheeled bullet straight.
If the bullet is not seated in line with the chamber, but is cocked to one side or the other, it will travel down the bore out of axis with the bore. Or, as they say in the Pacific Northwest -- kerslonchwise.
A bullet is like a toy top. Spin is quick and true, and it will run straight for a short time. Start that same top crooked and its orbit will degrade immediately and soon it will flop over and roll. A bullet that does not rotate in line with its axis will not be accurate.
It is difficult enough, at times, to get a properly designed conical bullet seated straight into the chamber, let alone one that wants to fight you every step of the way.
As noted above, the bullet must also be a tight fit in the chamber to keep it from shifting forward from recoil. In black powder firearms, a dangerous condition exists if there is a space between the projectile or wad, and black powder. This space can create catastrophic pressures.
So, a bullet that is little more than a slip-fit into a cap and ball revolver's chamber -- even with grease over it to discourage multiple ignition -- can cause major problems.
Don't waste good, modern bullets in a cap and ball revolver. Save them for the caliber for which they are intended.
Incidentally, every once in a while someone asks how to load jacketed hollowpoint bullets in their cap and ball revolver. I advise against it. You can bend the rammer lever and its parts trying to get a copper jacketed or plated bullet started.
The 8th edition of Handloader's Digest (1978) has quite an article by John Lachuk on using jacketed bullets in cap and ball revolvers (p. 46). He used a Ruger Old Army and replicas of the Remington Army and Colt Walker. He had to ream out the chambers of his revolvers to .451 inch, then adapt a MEC shotgun shell resizing tool to use as a rammer.
Frankly I feel the whole experiment, while interesting, was more trouble than it was worth. Jacketed bullets create greater pressure than lead bullets, because of their greatly increased friction. Lachuk also used a small priming charge of a fast-burning smokeless powder under the black powder -- a practice long known to not only increase pressures but to blow up guns!
Cap and ball revolvers, regardless of their vintage or design (are you listening, Ruger Old Army owners?) are NOT designed for smokeless powder. Period.
It's a wonder that Lachuk didn't blow up a gun or two. The gods were kind; they can just as often be malicious.
Returning to your original question -- save yourself frustration and use conical bullets designed for cap and ball revolvers. Better yet, use the humble ball. You'll almost certainly find the ball more accurate, much cheaper and easier to obtain.
For the .44 caliber, use balls of .454 or .457 inch. The Ruger Old Army is something of an exception, requiring balls of .457 inch. For the .36 caliber, use balls of .378 or .380 inch.
The increased diameter ball, when rammed into the chamber, creates a wider driving band for the rifling to grip, often enhancing accuracy.
Save those .45-caliber bullets for the day you get a .45 Colt, or trade them for proper conical bullets for the .44 cap and ball sixgun.