Author Topic: Small tig welder recommendation (Read 1554 times)

greer · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 07:05:32 AM »

I have a small gunsmith shop and I have always gotten someone else to do the small welding jobs that come up. I'm considering buying a small tig welder and would appreaciate some recommendations on what type/brand/model might be suitable for the type of jobs that come up while working on guns. I'll be starting from scratch on the know how and equipment. Thanks alot for any input. greer

gunnut69 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 07:55:08 AM »

I've used gas welders amd stick welders but tried the MIG and TIG once with way less than stellar results. The folks I know that ARE good with them are less worried anout the machine than the skill of the operator. With A TIG I've been told that as long as the power is variable with a foot pedal control... and hot enough for the job,,, it'l work well. Wish I could be more help... Perhaps a welding class at the local high school or community college? They can be very helpful and most include at least one of the techniques..some both.

After re-reading the post I made I want to stress that these are the way to go! My results were most certainly MY problem!! Either work fantastic but I know a great MIG welder and use his skill a lot..

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 09:17:35 AM »

I've got the Italian made Craftsman 110v fluxed-core unit, I haven't welded for 40yrs and then only with stick welders, but with just a little practice I was running acceptable beads, it took a couple adjustments on the wire feed speed, but it works great for light welding. There's a great deal of info on the internet on them, use your favorite search engine to check them out.

Tim

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2009, 09:47:04 AM »

If you want a tig machine it is not a cont. feed machine . A tig hook up can be as little as an electrod holder with a gas hook up attached and connected to the stinger of a an arc welding machine . You select the electrode ( that is NON consumable) depending on metal to be welded . You feed the rod in by hand , an operation that is similar to gas welding with regard to feeding in rod . This set up gives the most control in the welding process . Mig on the other hand is where the filler metal is fed in from a spool by the machine . The weld can be shielded with gas or from a flux core wire depending on machine use and type .
If you have a welding machine then the Tig set up would work well .
I have not welded on guns and do not know what a smith considers acceptable but with a Mig machine the first part of the weld is hard to get good penitration in as the rod is consumed while the base metal is reaching correct tempture . With a tig set up the correct heat can be achieved before filler rod is applied . If it is new to you a class at a VO-TEC school would give you opertunity to try both . Some welding supply houses will also give you a chance to try both . As far as brand Miller , Lincon , Hobart , union carbide and Onan are all good . Winnco was not . Jap eletrical equipment works great really but getting it repaired can be tuff finding a shop that understands it .

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2009, 09:49:09 AM »

BTW there was a Greer gun shop that did repair in Boones Mill Va. any connection ?
The owner was a good smith and person .

John R. · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:32:10 AM »

Thermal Arc has a new stick/Tig package out (Model 95S) that runs off of 110 or 230 volts. It would be perfect for what you want it for. Cost is $400.00. Check out their website.

greer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2009, 08:47:21 AM »

Thanks alot for all the replies. I may look into a basic welding class at a local vo tec school. My buddy who does my welding says he would help me out also. He owes me, he's always using my lathe. From what I've read the tig would probably be better suited to what I would need. Alot of the time I simply need to build up an area on a small part so I can work it back down to suit.

Shootall. No kin to the Greer in Virginia as far as I know, I'm in south central Ky. He's probably part of the smart Greer's that can weld.

I will check out the Thermal Arc website, thanks John.

Thanks again, any info is appreaciated. greer

dirtydawg · « **Reply #7 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:03:53 PM »

Greer, Miller electric makes several TIG machines that would suit your purposes. I own two of them myself one is 110volt only and puts out 90 amps,too small for your needs. The other one runs on 110,220,480 3ph and produces 200 amps they also make one that runs on 110 and puts out 140 amps borderline for your needs . the 2 that i have are very reliable and stick weld pretty good also . Ralph

greer · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2009, 07:22:52 AM »

The small Miller tig welders seem to come up alot in the research I've done. Thats what my buddy uses. It seems there are alot of good units out there but that parts and service may vary alot between brands. I'd like to find a good used one. Thanks. greer

EdK · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2009, 12:21:01 PM »

If you like message boards/forums (you're here) and you want to be informed, try this: http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2009, 06:37:49 AM »

greer from what you posted it would seem a buzz box with a tig attachment would work well for you and allow you to stick weld also .
That would be both enomical and offer a good proven systen . It may not have the high tech look but it has been used for decades as i used them on the job in the 70's thru the 90's

good luck , and let us know what you end up with

greer · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2009, 04:34:03 PM »

Thanks Shootall. I'll talk to my welding buddy about it. I'll be sure to post back. Thanks. greer

mrbigtexan · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:49:43 AM »

if you already have a stick welder then all you need is the tig hose/stinger. you simply attach your stinger lead to it and attach the hose end to the bottle. clamp your ground to the table and your ready to weld. you don't need a new welder machine to tig. you use argon gas and your electrode is tungsten.

CannonKrazy · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2009, 03:56:46 PM »

Quote from: mrbigtexan on October 26, 2009, 05:49:43 AM

if you already have a stick welder then all you need is the tig hose/stinger. you simply attach your stinger lead to it and attach the hose end to the bottle. clamp your ground to the table and your ready to weld. you don't need a new welder machine to tig. you use argon gas and your electrode is tungsten.

To add a little more to this info. The tungsten electrode best suited for carbon or stainless steel will be (2% thoreaited). This will usually come with a red color coded end. For welding aluminum you will need pure ( lanthiated)tungsten. A good diameter tungsten for general welding is 1/16". Ask most any welding supply and they can get what you need.

greer · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2009, 04:13:37 PM »

Thanks. I'm afraid I'll be starting from scratch in both equipment and knowledge. greer

mrbigtexan · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2009, 06:42:56 PM »

when you tig weld, make sure you have little to no wind. also if you use a regular arc welder then be sure to set it to dc-.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2009, 08:04:25 AM »

why set it to dc ? When you buy a decated tig or mig machine it has an exciter/amplifier that reverses current flow 1000 times or more a min. instead of the 120 times normal AC current changes with a 60 cycle circuit .

MZ5 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 03, 2009, 07:14:39 PM »

Why not run DC if you're simply adding on a GTAW (aka TIG) assembly to a stick welder? Running it AC will force you to have to mentally 'de-rate' the welder's output capacity (amperage) by roughly 25% due to rectification in the arc itself. That's why the tig welders that are designed as tig and run AC are high-frequency machines with essentially instant-reverse (digital rectification) current flow; you don't 'lose power' that you otherwise would due to the smooth, slow oscillation of a 60Hz current frequency.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:46:27 AM »

because you get a smoother arc and more fluid weld with AC . And adjusting the amps depends on many things including length of arc and speed of the welder . If you need deep penitration why not just use a stinger and stick weld if you have the setup you mention ?

MZ5 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 04, 2009, 05:15:48 AM »

I may have misunderstood. I had thought you were responding to the post above yours recommending that a person who was going to run a tig setup on a stick welder should run DC reverse. I thought you were asking that person about their recommendation, and I was attempting to give at least 1 good reason for such a recommendation (having to have a higher-output welder to achieve the desired heat level in the arc).

I disagree with your assertion of smoother arc and more fluid weld with AC, at least with respect to a stick welder (which again is what I believe we're talking about in terms of the power source), but then everyone has their preferences and best skills, so there will be variability as to what each of us has obtained best results with.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** November 04, 2009, 05:33:29 AM »

AC gives a smoother weld ( not talking about finished product but the transfer of filler metal from rod to work )and is easier to hold and arc with . DC can give deeper or less penetration depending on if you ground the work or the rod IE stright or reversed polarity . With tig it could be said that if you walk the cup holding an arc is more a matter of angle and setting the rod in the holder . Shame all welding is not flat on a bench , most all i deal with is pipe and duct in the field so we see very little easy to get to work .

MZ5 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2009, 07:27:32 AM »

I agree that AC is easier to hold an arc with, at least while one is learning. AC isn't any smoother in the finished product, though, so I propose that the theoretical smoothness of metal transfer is immaterial to the OP's context of occasional small jobs.

Most all of my welding is/was on and under ag equipment in the field (and buried pipe, usually with water still in it and a hole in the bottom

), so I certainly agree with you that it would be nice if all welding could be flat and on a bench. I prefer and use DC unless the appropriate rod for the job is AC-only. I never bought a dedicated tig setup since good rod became quite widely available (and inexpensive) that did a good job on the non-ferrous alloys I needed to weld. Neighbor had a good machine, though, and I got pretty good with it. Think we're far enough afield by now?

gunnut69 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2009, 05:55:01 AM »

Guys I have little practical knowledge with a MIG or TIG but I welded for several years in a fabrication shop. We made trusses is torsion jigs and most were commercial. The steel was quite heavy and welds subject to inspection. The welders were DC and a well set machine would allow the user to strike an arc and lay the stinger down. The rod would simply weld away into the surface and slag would roll up as it cooled behind the arc. The settings were high and rods were large. Penetration was a mandate but the DC welders were much easier to use than any AC I've ever used. At least once the welder was set up.. I've even welded bolt handles with a stick but the MIG does so much more of a neater weld that cleanup is much reduced.. Also once we found the settings the welds were much less porous than other techniques. Also the main reason for my preference for the MIG, TIG is the MUCH lower heat transfered into the work piece.. One can weld a bolt handle without damaging the heat treat of the cocking cam on a mauser with just a bit of care.. I just can't seem to get the hang of the MIG. If there were enough years left to justify the outlay in time I believe the TIQ is probably the superior. Mainly do to it's ability to swith fill material more easily to match the base material..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2009, 06:12:04 AM »

you must have use 7018 electrode or some other low hydrogen electrode they are easy and fast more so in a fab shop . My experince has been different with regard to AC VS DC . Most of my welding exp was over the last 37 years with pipe and some duct , all pipe is DC welded most over the years was with a 6010 root pass then 2 passes with 6010 or 7018 . The 7018 is easier to weld with than the 6010 or 5P but not as easy as some AC electrodes are .
Some SS with 308 ss rod , some cast iron with nickle rod and some alum pipe tiged were also done . We also used hot air and plastic rod to weld plastic pipe .

gunnut69 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2009, 05:22:57 PM »

I wasn't aware anyone welded plastic pipe I had thought they just applied a patch with solvent based adhesives.. I saw a canadien maintanence welder at a trucking facility weld a broken leaf spring once. My wife's uncle owns/operates heavy equipment and does his own repair. He suggested it could be done and like a couple of kids off they went and the spring worked fine.. It stayed put until the trailer was sold years later.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2009, 03:46:08 AM »

With plastic it is a process where with pipe you put the pipe in a socket on the fitting , heat the joint area with a speical air compressor/heater that has a airgun rod holder . You sharpen the rod to a point and put in the rod guide on the airgun rod holder . Heat the joint area and when it gets soft stick the pionted rod into the joint then as you carry the heat around the joint keep feeding the rod into the joint . Over lap at the end about a half inch . In effect you end up with a ring of filler rod that looks somewhat like a snap ring . It is imbedded into pipe and fitting and heat sealed to both if done correctly . The air temp is 400 degrees and you choose the rod as to the type plastic you are welding . When lining a tank you actually weave a bead where you weld seams in the linner .
We use it when we have Sch 80 heating lines that leak as it is ore cost effective to wekd over a bad cement weld than replace a fitting .

Bobby_2506 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 24, 2009, 01:55:07 PM »

I have a Miller SD180 Tig welder. It will also use coated rods. I have done several gunsmithing jobs with great results. It wasn't cheap I paid $1100 on sale, but the results I get justified the investment. Miller has a SD200 that took the place of the SD180. Go to the Miller site and see what they offer. I have had no problems with mine.