Author Topic: Way ahead of its time, Benjamin Chambers breech loader 1849  (Read 714 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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Way ahead of its time, Benjamin Chambers breech loader 1849
« on: March 02, 2009, 02:28:18 PM »
Take a look:

http://is.gd/lvKc

The reason I looked this patent up is that in the National Archives I found the Navy test report of the 12-pounder version of this gun, conducted at the Washington Navy Yard in 1851, by a board composed of Farragut, Harwood, and Dahlgren.  They fired about 20 rounds or less and the bolts holding the breech hinge onto the gun worked loose.  This was an inconvenience but not dangerous.  The breech was also hard to operate when it got dirty from powder residue.  Otherwise it seemed to work fine.  They gave it a mediocre report.

They were then asked if the gun might be something useful to put in service.  Their reply was rather snotty I thought, when they wrote that they really couldn't tell anything from a gun this size, they'd have to test two guns in the size used in the Navy, 32 pounder and 8 inch.  The poor inventor probably went broke building the one 12-pounder gun he brought to the test, much less two much larger ones.

If you look closely, this gun uses an INTERRUPTED THREAD BREECHBLOCK which didn't come into common use until something like the 1890's, then lasted until, well it is still in use in 155mm Army guns.

I think the Navy really missed a bet there.  Had they been a bit less conservative history could have been changed, like the Civil War might have been shorter, etc.

I found a large, old handcolored diagram of this gun, badly foxed, at the archives, and it may be the only original diagram of it showing all the parts in some detail.  Maybe I can get them to do some preservation on it.  I took pix anyway.


Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Way ahead of its time, Benjamin Chambers breech loader 1849
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 03:21:20 PM »
     John,  that's quite a find.  It would have been hard to believe that an interrupted thread, conical breech, breechloader existed way back then if you had not found those documents.  I think the Army was just as adverse to change as was the Navy.  Would any govt. purchases have happened if Spencer had not had his firing demo with President Lincoln?

Thanks for posting; that document is startling!

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Way ahead of its time, Benjamin Chambers breech loader 1849
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 03:38:28 PM »
You are quite right that his patent drawing shows a conical breechblock.  However the drawing I'm posting here, with the names of the test board members on it, is probably what was tested.  I'm going to guess what happened there.  Mr. Chambers takes his drawings to the machine shop and says "make this."  The machinist looks at the conical, interrupted thread breech and says "OK come back in about three years and bring lots of money."  Then, Mr. Chambers modifies his drawings to show a cylindrical breechblock.





Offline GGaskill

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Re: Way ahead of its time, Benjamin Chambers breech loader 1849
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 05:13:28 PM »
I think the Navy really missed a bet there.  Had they been a bit less conservative history could have been changed, like the Civil War might have been shorter, etc.

Also, having a competitive designer and insider (Dahlgren) on the board is not likely to give you unbiased judgment.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Way ahead of its time, Benjamin Chambers breech loader 1849
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2009, 12:54:05 AM »
Quote
Also, having a competitive designer and insider (Dahlgren) on the board is not likely to give you unbiased judgment.

Exactly.  The officer in charge of it all, Commodore Morris, was the most conservative of all, in fact Dahlgren had to work around him to get his improvements in.  Morris was in charge of the 1845 Ordnance Board, which set up a system of naval guns featuring the 8-inch and 32-pounder, and Dahlgren wanted to go to 9-inch and 11-inch.

I've now gotten completely through the Dahlgren papers in the Library of Congress, and Dahlgren really never did anything with breechloading.  He worked furiously on muzzle-loading smoothbores, and did more development and testing with rifled muzzle-loaders and projectiles for them, than most people realize.

A good book that was based in large part on the Dahlgren Papers in the L.O.C. is "Quest for Glory, a biography of Admiral John A. Dahlgren" by Robert J. Schneller, US Naval Institute, Annapolis, 1996.  Schneller is the world's Dahlgren expert and has written several articles, papers, etc. on him.  The bibliography and notes are extensive and the kind I like, which means they list a great many sources I never knew existed.