Another compressed load question

[Dixie Dude]

I was loading 45 grains of 4064 in some mixed cased brass .308 brass.  When I got to the old military brass, it was up in the neck a little ways.  The Lyman book said the minimum for the 150 gr bullet was 43 with the maximum at 48, so I was using 45.  I dropped back to 44 and still had some compressed loads.  Is this safe?  I have 3 rifles I use these in.  A Ruger 77, a Browning BLR, and an L1A1.  I figured since it was not max load it would be ok? 

[AtlLaw]

I tell ya, I've got a lot of LC brass and I've used it for the .308 and necked it up for my .358.  I can't remember what powder I used for the .308 year before last, but it wasn't 4064.  I think it was IMR 4895.  I got some real interesting results that had me weighing cases, comparing weights between years headstamped, weight differences between Military vs commercial brands and so on 'till I wore the beam off the scale!    

About the only rule I formed for me was that when using military brass, I ALWAYS start with the minimum load listed in the manual!   I also consider the mid-range loads to be the maximum loads.  I was never brave enough to get near the maximum load when using military .308 brass and think it unsafe to do so.  Military brass IS heavier then commercial brass.

Just my opinion... for what it's worth... nobody listens to me anyway... I don't know why I bother...    everybodies gonna tell me I'm wrong... 

[Dixie Dude]

Well, I might have to get the bullet puller out, or use my bolt gun to see what happens.  I picked 4064 because it covered everything I shot.  .223, 308, 30-06, 35 Whelen, and 45-70.  I use my .308's for hunting whitetails here in east Alabama.  I knew the military brass would be thicker, but not that thick.  Standard brass from Rem, Win, Fed, and Hornady were ok. 

[John Traveler]

Military brass is heavier and has less volume than commercial brass.  It is always a good idea to reduce your charge by 5% and work back up to whatever your maximum is.  Using that old medium charge can be enough to blow primers or give difficult extraction, both unpleasant indications of an overcharge.

[stimpylu32]

Just because the book says its max does not mean that it will fit all cases or guns , what may be max in one rifle may be WAY over max in another , so Always start low and work up .

I have run into this with LC cases in 223 , were the capisity will be a whole 2 grains below Winchester brass . 

stimpy

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Dixie Dude,

Your comment in the first sentance, "-------- some mixed case brass -----------." rang my bell!

Loading with compressed loads may or may not be a problem, depending on powder, powder lot#, brand and/or lot # of brass, type of primers and/or lot# etc.

That is why we are cautioned to back off from safe worked up loads anytime we make a change in brand, type or lot numbers of components.

Back quite a number of years ago, I was working up loads for my son's 30/06. During the process, I ran out of hulls from the batch of "known" Rem. brass, falling 5 or so cases short of the number needed for the searies.

I went to my 06 brass supply and chose enough cases to finish up the tests, choosing cases with head markings identical to those already in use.

As it turned out, these "odd" cases were used in the two sets of test rounds with the highest and next to highest powder charges.

The "odd" cases were trimmed to correct trim length before loading.

Upon firing the last two sets of test rounds, the lower of the two threw fliers - as I recall - from the odd cases, but with the top loading not only threw the shots out of the group, but showed very high pressures.

At least one of the cases, one which I have saved as an example, streached BEYOND THE NEEDS TO BE "trimed length" in just that one firing.

That was way before the days of my digital scale, but my best case is that lot of brass had very thick case walls, which in turn lead to the VERY!! high pressures.

Point is, don't mix brass or any other component if you are anywhere close to maximum pressures.

As per the compressed loads, I many times load rounds with the powder well up towards the top of the case neck. NO PROBLEM.  However, these are loads which have been "worked up" to, and are showing no signs of pressure problems.

Also, as has already been noted, different rifles react differently and it is very likely loading just one load and expecting good perforence from two or more rifles of the same caliber will lead to so - so results.

Your best results will come from "working up" loads for each rifle, as well as keeping the brass separated by rifle along with separation by lot #, brand AND NUMBER OF TIMES FIRED.

Be safe and keep em coming!

CDOC

[Siskiyou]

Recently I decided to get ahead in my loaded ammunition supply so when the snow melts up high I can focus on shooting.  I decided to load 61-grains of H4831 in LC (Lake City) military cases necked down to 270 Winchester, behind a 110-grain Sierra bullet.  Thirty years ago I was loading 54-grains of H4831 behind the same bullets for my son in LC cases. 

I had loaded the 61-grains in 270 Remington and Winchester cases in the past.  Even with a drop tube I could not get 61-grains into the LC cases.  I immediately returned to the old 54-grain load, which is just short of being compressed in the LC cases.

In the past I have loaded in excess of 56 grains of H4831 in commercial 06 cases necked down to .270 Winchester without a problem. 

This was a good reminder that Military cases, and Military cases from different plants demonstrate varying case capacity.

I have resized commercial .308 and 7.62 NATO cases into 300 Savage cases.  Typically I loaded the cases with IMR4064 pushing 150 and 165-grain bullets.  I have had no issues with these loading.  I have spent a good amount of time working up these loads, and do not exceed the published maximum by the bullet manufacture.  These loads are near maximum and are slightly compressed.

Sometimes the difference in what appears to be a compressed load is the use of a long drop tube.  Slowly feeding the powder into the funnel rather then dumping it also makes a difference between the same load being in the neck or in the shoulder of the case.