Author Topic: "hicks" accurizer. (Read 4561 times)

Argonaut · « **on:** November 10, 2008, 04:11:29 PM »

Okay, I have heard people mention the Hickss accurizer, but I have not read any report on anyones results. So I decided to make one and see how it works. The only thing is , mine is someone different than the one pictured. This is mostly cosmetic. I Did all the work with a manual "bridge port" (knee) mill. Our CNC, is usully tied up with something so I didn't bother to write the program to cut the outside to the same shape. On the top side I made a .375 post with a .4375 Radius on the top to cradle the barrel. The post sits in a slot that allows some movement ( .05) of off center to allow the post to center on the barrel easer. I discovered that the sping hanger is not directely under the barrel and a fixed post or screw would push on and rub off metal just off of center, hence the sliding titainium post. a standard 10-32 set screw puts pressure on the post.

The over all size is about the same and works the same. I inletted the stock, resealled it but as yet I haven't had time to get the range. that comes next week if the weather co-opperates. I will give an up date and see if it works.

JJ Kelly · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2008, 10:41:35 AM »

Hi,
I had a ruger #1 in .338 win. mag. and with even different weight bullets it shot vertical strings, it was worse with 250 gr. bullets. After talking to E. Arthur Brown he stated that in that caliber what do you want. Since I like 250 gr. bullets I decieded to fix the gun myself. The hicks device goes on to the gun
very easy, the hard part is inletting the forearm. With the device properly installed the gun went from 6"
groups to 3 shot 1 1/4" at 100 yds. The bad news is when you ajust the tension screw it is set, you can't
remove the forearm, because then it isn't set anymore. I think if I were to do it again, I would drill and tap
a set screw at the bottom of hanger. I would still free float the forearm but you would only have to do
minor inletting to forearm; the hicks device, you remove a lot of wood.

Argonaut · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2008, 05:27:13 PM »

Well I tried my homemade accurizer and it seems to have worked fairly well so far. I fired several 5 and 3 shot strings. After about 18 shots, groups started to open up. but not in any pattern. normally shots string upward. When I got home I took a good look and found lots of copper fowling. weather permitting I will try again next weekend, and bring my cleaning supplies.

But at least I can see an improvement in vertical stringing.

I was shooting 100 grain hornady interlock bullets, I chronographed 20 shots and the average was a little over 3250 FPS. groups while the barrel was clean ran about 1.250, for 5 shots but the first 3 shots allways grouped at around an inch. this was with a heavy dose of H4831SC. Safe for a Ruger numer 1 but not so for Mauser actions (94 and 96's) and that 26 inche barrel really helps to burn that powder.

Maybe I will try some of those tubs abbrasive bore lapping bullets. I heard good stuff about them from guys at the range.

Argonaut · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2008, 06:52:41 AM »

Okay, I went to the range to work with the accurizer some more. It was a cold day for here, (in the 40's) but zero detectable wind. Groups stayed around 1.25 to1.5 inches. although i get some odd flyers some times. I suppose if I used the statistical 10 shots I would find a average group size of 3 inches because of some of the flyers. My number 1 is a a latter model (2 set screw trigger) so it has the adjustable trigger that really doesn't adjust as opposed to the early 3 screw triggers that do adjust. I have is set a good as I can get it. but it is still not what I prefer. So that does't help in group shooting, plus I have been usually my usually front rest for this rifle, which is my hand. Next time I will try a sand bag, as the barrel is "free floating" now.

I did fire my last 6 shots quickly so as to heat the barrel and they did not string veritically. so that alone is a major improvement

I did drop my load back to the max. load listed in my book. velocity was an average of 3150 fps with 100 gr, hornady interlocks, not bad for a .257 roberts

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2008, 07:21:43 AM »

Here is a pic I got from (I think) Rifle Magazine. It is more or less a poor man's Hicks accurizer. I have intended to try it but so far have not owned a No.1 that has caused me problems

I would love to see a pic or two of your work

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** November 30, 2008, 05:32:03 PM »

Since my first attempt to in stall my own accurizer i found that on my used Ruger some one had a try added and drilled the hole in the wrong place where it would interfere with the forearm screw.

I measured the space between the hanger and the barrel and made three spacers 32, 40, 50thou larger than the space from from hard wood. Trials with the different spacers showed 0.032 plus space gave the best accuracy. You can read about it on my web site.

The bottom of the spacer is glued the hanger, top is concave ed to fit the barrel. Any such modification requires the re bedding of the hanger where it sits on the forearm.

JJ Kelly · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2008, 08:50:08 AM »

Even with the hick's device it still is just a set screw pushing against the barrel,
that set screw is tightened until you get the best accuracy. What I don't like
about the hick's device is once it is set and for some reason you have to take off
the forearm, the gun has to be sighted in again. If you drill the hole in the right place
and use a good size set screw adjust it and then put put forearm back on, my
forearm the wood doesn't touch the barrel. Second, yes the hick's device goes
on easy but to inlet the wood right is a big pain and most people wouldn't be able
to do it right. Bottom line is, by stabilizing the hanger, you get better accuracy.

Harry O · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2008, 06:20:59 AM »

Quote from: Fred M on November 30, 2008, 05:32:03 PM

Trials with the different spacers showed 0.032 plus space gave the best accuracy.

I did the same thing that you did and found the same thing. I fitted the wood shim to the curvature of the barrel and of the hanger (it also tapers along the length). I used close grained walnut. About 1/32" over the base space worked best. It cut down on vertical stringing I was getting with heat quite a bit.

JJ Kelly · « **Reply #8 on:** December 05, 2008, 08:01:37 AM »

If you just use a block, how do you adjust it? With a set screw
you can increase the amount of pressure on the barrel. How
does the rifle shoot, if it shoots good then it works.

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2008, 03:43:57 PM »

With 0.032" wood block you don't need adjustments, hence the trials with different height blocks. I have 4 #1 all with 0.032" blocks never had to adjust them. You have to go through the same procedure with the hicks when you find the right tension you never touch them again.

Its no big deal to make 2 or 3 different blocks. They are glued only on the hanger with epoxy. By spreading the hanger with a wedge you can measure the taper. Make sure the forearm is bedded perfectly against the action and the hanger tip.

The forearm setup is to create 10-15 lbs uplift when the forearm screw is tight and the hanger tight o the wood.

Some wood has to be removed under the hanger tip and glass bedded for best results.

Set-Trigger · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2008, 08:26:41 AM »

You guys sure do a lot of strange things trying to get a $ 1000. hunting rifle to shoot good. I cant believe that anyone has to hammer a piece of wood, off all things, between the barrel and hanger of a $ 1000. gun to get it to shoot good. If this really has to be done wouldn't a piece of plastic or brass be much more stable. And how far do you have to hammer this chunk of wood in. That doesn't sound very precision to me.

You say: "the forearm setup is to create 10-15 lbs uplift when the forearm screw is tight". How does one measure this uplift and what do we measure it with. Do these guns shoot so bad that there not capable of shooting good for big game at say 200 or 300 yds.

Can you tell me, just what do you all mean by shooting "good", is it a two inch group, a half inch group, is it at 100 yds., 3 shots, 5 shots or ?. For me a $ 1000. is a lot of money to spend on a gun that's not capable of shooting "good" right out of the box.
S-T

Fred M · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2008, 12:42:35 PM »

Set Trigger.
Unfortunately you have preconceived ideas, and very little mechanical knowledge. So there is no point in explaining.
One hint, wood is a very good dampening media.

Set-Trigger · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2008, 03:03:40 PM »

Oh, I see, Ok,
Sorry that I have very little mechanical knowledge. Sorry also that I made a suggestion and asked some questions. Thanks for all the help you have given me and to others that may have wanted to see your "expert" answers to my questions.
It wont happen again, I'll make sure that I don't bother you.
Set-Trigger

JJ Kelly · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2008, 05:48:36 AM »

Set-trigger,
Your right, it is a shame that you pay good money for any gun and it shoots poorly.
My Ruger #1 in .338wm out of the box was shooting 6" vertical groups but it was such
a nice gun, I wanted to fix it. It now shoots 1 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100 yds. as long
as you let the barrel cool between shots. Not all guns or Ruger #1's do this, sometimes
you get lucky, buy a gun, it shoots great from the start. For the record, I am willing
to share any gun,reloading, shooting info. I have. good shooting to you, JJK

Set-Trigger · « **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2008, 10:18:20 AM »

Hi JJ Kelly,
Thanks for your reply and offer to help. IMO the Ruger # 1 is one of the nicest factory made Single Shot Rifles that the common guy can afford. The price is a bit high but it's still affordable, at least for me it is. I guess I have been lucky, I have a few of them and they all shoot more than good enough for hunting use, inch and sometimes a bit under in the smaller calibers, inch and a half in the ones above 30 caliber, it's not a bolt action, and it's not a target rifle, it's a Hunting Rifle.

I know some guys that use them for target shooting in traditional single shot shooting events and they do a very fine job of it. Unlike some that have ( I'll use a BIG word here ) "preconceived" ideas on how to get one to shoot better, like you, these guys are always more than willing to help us guys that are "mechanically challenged",
and a few of them have set records with their # 1's.

I can say without a doubt that none of them use a chunk "wood" hammered in between the hanger and the barrel to aid in the accuracy of there record setting scores and groups. I'm not saying that they don't have there tricks on how to dampen barrel vibrations, and even though I may be "mechanically challenged", I do know that there are many other things that are much more stable in this area than wood.

From what I've read these guys do use some unusual things in tuning there # 1's, but none of it is as non-precision as hammering a piece of wood or anything else between the barrel and hanger, to the best of my knowledge some of them do use the Hicks or drill the hanger for an adjusting screw for precision adjusting and dampening, and much more precision that anything jammed between the barrel and hanger.

Also for the record:
I may not be able to help much because of my "experience", but like you, I am willing to share any info I may have come across in the gun and shooting area. I thought that's what these forums were all about.
Good shooting to you also.
Set Trigger

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2008, 11:19:38 AM »

There is no point in trying to provide information to people who don't know how to read and even see. They bring forth, like a magpie, nothing but noise and confusion and no results to fine tuning and accurizing a Ruger #1.

Speak not in the ears of a fool for he will despise the wisdom of your words.
Proverbs: 23-9

Harry O · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:47:03 AM »

Quote from: Set-Trigger on December 09, 2008, 08:26:41 AM

You guys sure do a lot of strange things trying to get a $ 1000. hunting rifle to shoot good.

First of all, none of my Rugers originally cost $1,000, even with the scope included. Second, they shoot just fine if you let them cool off between shots. If you don't, they string vertically. ALL of my rifles (lever action, semiauto, bolt, and single shot) do that -- differing amounts, but they all do it. Some can be easily fixed, others cannot.

I read about how easy it was to fix the Ruger single shot, so I tried it. They were right. It is easy and it works.

As far as accuracy, every one of my Ruger single shots (I have three in different calibers) shoot one MOA to 1-1/2 MOA (three shot groups) from a sandbag rest right out of the box when allowed to cool between shots. One has been rebarreled with a custom wildcat that will shoot between 1/2 MOA to 3/4 MOA at 200 yards consistently. All three of them will shoot without vertical stringing much longer with the wedge than without it (I have tried them both ways).

You can do what you want, but don't belittle those that get results.

Set-Trigger · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2008, 01:42:04 PM »

JJ Kelly,
I'm really surprised that Gray Beard tolerates guys with a bad attitudes and guys to bad mouth and criticize in a bad way other guys on this forum just because they made a suggestion or asked a question.

Harry O,
The last time I checked the retail price on a Ruger # 1's they were just over $ 1000.
I never said that they did not shoot just fine right out of the box for hunting, all I said was that I was surprised that some guys sure do a lot of strange things trying to get a $ 1000. hunting rifle to shoot good. Was there something wrong with that statement.

Also that I couldn't believe that anyone has to hammer a piece of wood, off all things, between the barrel and hanger of a $ 1000. gun to get it to shoot good, that's all I said, and I thought that there must be something better that a chunk of wood. That was what I thought, and I was only expressing my opinion, I guess there was something wrong with that statement also.

I was not trying to belittle any one, if you want to talk about someone belittling guys on this forum just look at a few of the post by the so called "expert" # 1 guy, I never seen any one handle a guys question with such a condescending, arrogant, belligerent, holier than god way than that guy.

I can see that this is not the place for me to learn anything or to offer suggestions on anything so I'll be on my way and let him and his gloat in there glory. I'll be sure to let others know about the GREAT experience I've had on GBO forum. I'm sure there are other more friendly and informative forums on the internet.
By guys, I'm checkin out, life is to short to put up with stuff like this.
Set Trigger

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2008, 02:55:41 PM »

When a rifle looks nice and handles well I am willing to do a few easy things to add to the accuracy.
Yea... you could have a blot action or semi automatic... if you want one of those you probably would have the attitude that it is $1000 and not look at it and see what I do.
BTW I have never paid more than $460 for one so far.

bull · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2008, 08:51:48 AM »

Set-Trigger,

I don't do this often, but I'm gonna blow a little steam off. If you can contribute to the conversation then please join in. If all you're gonna do is criticize then please hang back. Fred was trying to answer a question and doesn't need you jumping on his back. If you have a better solution to the original question then please offer it up. If you have another question, then start a new thread. I have traded views with Fred before, and find that while he may not know everything, he does have considerable knowledge about these Rugers. No, a piece of wood may not be the best solution, but if it works then why not. That fancy handle you tuck up against your shoulder called a stock is made of the same material. And if you read carefully, that "chunk of wood" was referred to with specific dimensions, and it was stated that it was tapered to match the barrel contour. And I saw no mention of a hammer. Some of us do this just to see how much better we can make them shoot. Re-engineered if you like. Because in this profit driven world, craftsmanship has taken a back seat to the bottom line. If we can improve our rifles by tinkering, then more power to us. And if you pay suggested retail for all your rifles then you need to shop around a little.

bull

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2008, 05:07:43 PM »

Bull.
Thanks for the input. To think that someone with no No-know how accuses me of not helping people really shows where he is coming from. I have received thousands of e-mails from all around the world about about my Wildcatting web site. The number of hits on my site speaks for it self.

My web site is even used in a reloading school free of charge.

Thanks again,
Fred M

Argonaut · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2008, 08:54:24 AM »

I really didn't mean to set folks off ah gin' one another. i just thought I would give some info on my attempt to make my ruger more stable. Mostly I want my rifles to shoot as well as possible, but more to the point I wanted a rifle that I could "trust" to hold zero. Not counting being dropped or that sort of thing, but with reasonable care would hold a 1.5 inche group at 100 yard approx 2.5 inches high. and not shift around two or three inches. Group size would stay the same with a cold barrel. but would change in relation to point of aim.
On the rare occasions I get to go hunting, I don't want to have to stop off at the range at the last minute to check my zero just one more time to reasure myself.

In my case, inletting the wood was not a problem but that is because I am a machinist and have access to lathes and milling machines. I used Titanium and 17-4 stainless steel. because I had some scraps of this material in my tool box.

when I can get a decent picture of what i put together I well post it here. I haven't had the time to get back out and do anymore testing because of the weather and now a pinched nerve in my back.

JJ Kelly · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2008, 10:53:26 AM »

Argonaut,
Hope the little debate answered your question, it seems you went right to work.
Hopefully when your done, your rifle will shoot the way you want. I was talking
about my #1 in .338wm giving me trouble but the #1 in .458wm didn't have those
problems, maybe because of the heavier barrel. Let us know how it came out.

Argonaut · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:52:14 PM »

well I finally got a good digital camera, and now I can't up load a picture of the thing anyway.