After 27 years bad dreams

[Sourdough]

Well it's 4 AM, I've been sitting here staring at the computer for over and hour.  Wife kicked me out of the bedroom around 2 something for yelling in my sleep.  I had the same dream twice, and she woke me up both times.  The funny part is that after I was released from the hospital in Germany in 1983, I seldom thought about it, and never had dreams about it.  Until last night.  Guess I need to go see the people at the VA today, but you know there are young people that need to do that a lot more than I do.  They have seen and done so much more than I did. 

I think it was something that was brought on by a conversation yesterday at the range.  After I finished sighting in a new rifle I was sitting having a capachino with some other retirees.  A retired Army guy came up and sat down.  We were talking about rifles, and things we had used in the past.  This Army retiree started talking about the guns he used in the Army.  Then he started bragging about the things he did in Beirut in 1983.  Only the things he is talking about and the way he describes Beirut is not the way I remember it in 1983.  I never said any thing but I knew and so did some of the other guys, that this fellow was feeding us all a line of bull.

But it got me to thinking about things I had not thought about in 27 years.  mainly about Charlie, a young Marine who had taken a shot to the chest.  Charlie was in a stretcher across the plane from me, and they were working on him feverishly.  I remember opening my eyes and a doctor standing there and a nurse said she had the bleeding under control, a vacuum pump in place and I was stable.  I would be good till we got to Germany.  Charlie looked at me and winked, with a big smile on his face.  The doctor turned around and went to work on Charlie.  Charlie looked up at the doctor.  I started fading out, but I remember the nurse saying, "Doctor, Charlie is no longer with us" Then repeating it louder.  Next thing I knew I was in Germany.

In my dream I yelled for Charlie to wake up.  I unhooked the straps holding me down.  Pulled out the tubes and wires attached to me.  Crossed the aisle and started shaking Charlie yelling for him to wake up.  That's  When the wife woke me up and said to stop yelling.  Now I've been sitting here crying for two hours.  Funny how something like that can bother you so many years later.  Two of us with chest injuries, hanging by a thread.  The older man's thread held, the younger man's did not.  I was 34 at the time, I would guess Charlie was about 19.

[Questor]

Ugh! I used to think about stuff like that sometimes and it would affect my dreams. It took a while to push the thoughts out of my daily thinking. That took care of the problem, though. It really helps to have some daily passions, like literature, art, music, or some other engrossing hobby. It's an intense thing that, unlike work and mundane hassles, we don't escape from, we escape to.

Good luck with it. Think of it as temporary.

[Questor]

A guy I used to work for started having recurrent dreams about the bodies of dead Vietnamese he had to bury while in Viet Nam (it was a regular job for him). This occurred during a time when he was reading a lot about the history of that war and was involved with various veterans events. The powerful images of dead people would come to him while awake. They came back while asleep too. The dreams stopped when he stopped his history lessons and was able to put the thoughts out of his concious mind.

The mind is a funny thing. It is so good at forgetting pain and remembering pleasure. What a gift. Sometimes there are exceptions, but we seem to have the ability to deal with those exceptions well.

[Badnews Bob]

I haven't slept well in years, Thankfully I don't wake up screaming. I just don't go to sleep. I wasn't hurt myself or anything like that, I just got to see too many young men get carried home in a box. The tears come easy thinking about the fallen one.

Go see someone Sourdough, counseling is next for me to and a couple of my cousins who are Vietnam Vets with simular problem are going together here soon, That and some of the brothers I ride with talk about it. It helps but I still don't sleep well.

[Sourdough]

I should have said I seldom thought of charlie, and never dreamed about him before.

Beirut is a constant in my life.  I have this massive scar that goes from under my left arm pit to the center of my chest.  I see it every morning in the mirror.  I go to the gym almost every day.  Men and boys see me in the locker room and stare.  Kids see me in the pool and stare.  Often people, especially women and kids ask how I got that big scar.  It is far more noticeable than the scar from my heart by-pass.  So Beirut is not the issue, something yesterday triggered me to think about Charlie.  I need to think about that.  Maybe I can figure it out and come to terms with it.

[LONGTOM]

No experence her as I was lucky and didn't have to take my senior trip to NAM, the draft ended just weeks before I was to go.

Everyone must deal with it in their own special way.

Although I didn't have to serve I still think about my friends who did and didn't make it back.
I think about the things my brother had to endure while he was in country.

I am thankful I was spared and pray that my two young boys will never know the true horrors of war!

I don't know if this will work for you but I have heard that helping others get over their problems has helped people get over theirs.
Maybe this will work for you.
Only you understand what is happening in your mind.

Good luck to all of you and I pray you all can come to terms with your demons!
Thanks you for your service so my boys might live in a free and peaceful country!


LONGTOM

[bilmac]

We had a guy visit our Church who was a consuler with the VA. When he found out that I had been a grunt in Nam he almost insisted that I come pay him an official visit. He said I may think I am alright but I probably am not. I never did go see him, I still don't have any problems, except if a bullet should fly my way unexpectedly I may grovel in the snow. Stories like yours though make me think that he could be right.

That may be an inheritance of the way we do modern wars. In a total war like WWs 1&2, when you came home you were not isolated from your brother warriors. There were guys around you who had done similar things. When I came back I was a real oddity. In all my years I have only been close with only one other guy who actually carried a rifle in the war.

[AtlLaw]

My nightmares finally stopped a few years ago.  Next time you go to Florida, make plans to stop in Atlanta and we'll talk.  Welcome home brother.

[myronman3]

  all i have say is that God has a plan, and He decides who comes home when.   He called him home. it was charlie's time to go home, and not yours.   have faith in that.   hopefully you can sort it out. 

[Redtail1949]

I made it all these years without any real problems...just in the last few months i have started having a lot of bad dreams and out right nightmares.

I guess that it is always there sometimes with some right under the surface. With some buried real deep but still there lurking.

Talked to many vets from all sides Japs, Germans, French underground, American Marines, Army, Air Force and Navy. World War II Korea Vietnam always the same. They linger with it most not speaking to anyone except the closest of friends. In most cases another vet..one that can understand.

The horror of war all war and the things that are done by all sides sears the brain most WWII and Korea vets drank heavy the ones that were deep in the S*5$. Vietnam Vets that experienced the horror first hand turned to the jug and many to drugs.

The reasons for all had to do with dealing with the pain, the pain of knowing just how much horror they had done to others and not forgeting the horror done to them and their fellow soldiers.

Hold on there Sourdough hopefully it will pass and do not forget you are not alone in that hell.

[bilmac]

Why is this showing up now after many years with no problems? Is the all dem government so disturbing that it is bringing this on. I haven't hardly had a good nights sleep since it became apparent that McCain was going to be the Republican candidate.

[BBF]

A friend of mine, senior to me in not all that many years was a machine gunner on the Russian front WW II. Only after his last breath will he have peace with what he saw then and thinks about daily now.

War sucks !!  For all sides.

[Redtail1949]

the triggers that start these nightmares can be anything.. my uncle would dive for cover with a loud noise no matter where he was he often told me that smells sometimes triggered un controlable shaking while awake. i was the only member of my family that was real close to him his own son was not as close. the reason was i wanted to know what he went through and i believe it gave him an opportunity to vent his feelings and realte his fears as well as some of the terrible things he had done to the japs. i never judged him i listened sometimes in disbelief sometimes in horror as he related what he saw and did.

in my own personal experience..my grandson joined the marines..no problem i was very proud of him and offered encouragement to him. then after boot camp off to hawaii his first assignment..still no problems. then he came home on leave and called to talk to me about combat as he was told that within a few months he would be going to Afganistan.

he was afraid, as all of us were when we realized that your really going and he felt to embarrased to talk to even his father. he wanted to know if i was ever afraid...and when i told him just how scared i had been and just how scared i was every day in the combat zone. he could not believe it, he had thought that we all were "John Wayne" that faced death without fear. i told him everyone i ever met are saw was afraid yet it was the training and the loyalty to one another that would carry him through it. i told him that he had no shame to be fearful and not to worry that he was a coward he would do his duty as millions have done before him.

It was after about 10 calls and several hours of talks telling him in detail of some of my own personal experiences....my nightmares began. I had pulled up long ago deeply buried memories and emotions.

he said he was glad i had confided in him as he was beginning to feel that he might be a coward. hell he knows now that we all feel that way at first not certain of how we will react when the shooting starts. i told him i feared my failure under fire and being a coward in the presence of my fellow soldiers was my single biggest fear.

after i told him that he was well trained and not to worry his training and his love for his fellow soldiers will carry him through.

that made me start thinking every day and dreams every night, it was my facing my fears for him. as we all know life and death comes in milli seconds no time to go over the rules of engagement or call your capt. for advice. we all know that no matter how good you are luck simple luck has more to do with you living or dieing than anything else. one foot in either direction sometimes only inches whether you are in the point or right behind or in the tail end of a patrol makes a difference.

so i guess it is my fear for him and as i know the risk he is taking it has triggered my dreams.

i used to think my uncle was crazy when he would wake at night screaming and calling for us to get down the japs are just over there. then maybe five minutes later he would snap out of it shaking like a leaf. he had those recurring dreams and nightmares until he died 81 years old.

combat and fear, real gut twisting fear, does things to a person that nothing else can and it is burned into the cells of your brain put away sometimes but never forgotten.

to those here that have known that fear..i pray you will deal with it and be able to put it back down in your head and i ask that you pray that i can as well.

[torpedoman]

It is always there and always will be, it is part of what makes us who we are, we have a thin film of veneer over it to keep it from comming into view. the guy scratched your veneer a little too deep, hope you can get it back down soon.

[Sourdough]

Have given it much thought in the last couple of days.  Think I might know what triggered it, but it's something I've got to deal with.  That day I shot and handled an AR-15.  That was the first time I had shot and unloaded one since Beirut.

My dream always started with me removing the magazine and pulling the charging handle to extract the chambered round.  Not when I was outside the Aircraft shooting, or when the grenade went off.  But when I was back in the plane making the M-16 safe.

Yesterday, I was again at the range.  A guy that works with my wife came out.  He had a new Remington R-15 in .308.  This Sargent was really proud of his new toy, and wanted to show it to me.  When he handed it to me I started shaking so bad he noticed and asked if I was OK.  I realized that was the trigger that had started me dreaming.  I handed the gun back to him.  I did a lot of thinking about it the rest of the day.  Last night no dreams.  I'll just wait and see how it goes.