Berger VLD Big Game Hunting Bullets

[FW Conch]

I recently became aware that Berger is produceing bullets in this catagory & the thing that appealed to me the most, they recommend their bullets be seated into the lands.  That & many out there claim they are the most accurate bullets available.  I like the idea of just seating the bullets @ the lands rather than playing around with seating depth to try & find an accurate load.  There are many positive revues out there where hunters report very successful terminal results on big game.

So I decided to order some for my 30-06 & my 308 W.  I ended up getting 175grn for the 308 & 190grn for the 30-06.  I got these because they were all I could get  without backorder, & I'm glad I did.  With the VLD's touching the lands, the 30-06 has a COL of 3.481" & the 308 has a COL of 2.953", & both have less than .250" of straight bearing shank in the caseing neck, but seem stable enough.  If I had gotten lighter bullets, they would never have touched the lands, & I certainly wouldn't want any less bullet in the neck.  The 308 will be fired "single shot" from a bolt rifle,  & the '06 from my Handi,  so the long length will not be a problem.  These VLD's sure have a long, skinny point !   

I loaded the 308 with Varget, beginning with STARING LOAD, & going up 1/2 grain @ a time, stopping 2 grains from max, until I can start shooting them to look for pressure signs, then start loading for "group".  I used the same loading procedure for the '06 useing IMR 4350 & H414.  Now all I have to do is get up to Virginia & shoot till I "ring those puppys out"    !  Once I get accurate loads, I'm gonna try them out on a Virginia Whitetail next fall !  Hopefully, I'll get the chance to see how these slightly 'heavy for caliber' bullets penetrate on a big buck !

I would really like to hear from anyone who has any first hand knowledge, or interest in this subject  !

THANKS - Jim

[KAYR1]

I was very excited to see that Berger got into the hunting bullet game. Their match and varmint bullets typically out-shoot anything else in my 22-250, and 220 Swift. They are expensive, but I dont skimp on hunting ammo. Id like to see what the terminal performance looks like. There is a show on the outdoor channel, not sure the name, that uses these bullets for big game. The show "specializes" in long-range hunting. I saw an elk dropped at "only 400 yards". I say only because these guys purposely set up long range shots. I'm not sure that I agree with that, they seem to make it work.

Id love to hear about your results with these. I bet that the accuracy will be great. I dont know much about the construction or terminal performance though. Please keep us posted

[Savage_99]

VLD's don' t need to be seated into the lands.  I would avoid that.

Here is a post on hunting with them.

http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?s=a9f0bed3f219f1e4ddece1eb2bee7c87&threadid=47806#post327030

[Arier Blut]

I have been using Bergers for over 20 years. When they first came out  in .308 target match I was having very good results on southern whitetail with the 168gr. Switched to the new mh vld bullet in 308 win 168 gr. when they were released. Never encountered a problem. I seat .03" off the lands and use varget. With a good scope and bergers you can almost pick  the hair you want to hit. No need to put on the lands. This usually requires you to drop the load down to stay under pressure level. IMHO the 308 and 06 like to be pushed near max powder capacity to settle into good groups. Not saying your load wouldn't out shoot mine. Just saying my results were always best when pretty well duplicating factory velocities with a slightly longer bullet. Good luck with your new load on game.

[Grumulkin]

I use Berger VLDs in a couple of rifles.  Using them in my 300 Weather Magnum (168 grainers) I've taken 4 pronghorn antelope and 2 whitetails.  With my 25/06 I've taken one whitetail.

In the case of the deer taken with the 25/06, the bullet hit in the back of the left rear leg while the deer was departing my field and it still killed it.  One of the pronghorns was taken at a range of about 292 yards.  The VLD blew right through it leaving 6 to 8 feet of blood stained grass behind where it had been standing.  I use 168 gr. VLDs in the 300 Weatherby by the way.

I do seat the VLDs near the lands in my Encore but the magazine length won't allow that in my Blaser; they shoot very well either way.

[GameHauler]

I love VLD's
here is a little loading info from Eric Stecker  of Berger Bullets.

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle



Background



VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifles. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).



For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.



Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.



Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.



Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.



After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”



We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.





Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle



Solution



The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.



Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.



Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).



Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.



Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:

1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds

2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds



Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:

1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds



Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).



Regards,

Eric Stecker

Master Bulletsmith

[FW Conch]

KAYR1 - I catch some of those hunting shows on Sunday mornings & learn from them, but I try to remember, they EDIT OUT more than they show us.  For various reasons I limit my shooting to 300yds.

99 - That's a great site you posted with lots of good information.

Arier - It,s good to hear from someone with your level of experience.  I,m expecting the 308 to settle out @ about 45grns of Varget, especially since I hear I don,t have to touch the lands.

Grumulkin - That,s the kind of shooting I hope to be able to achieve, & your feedback on the terminal performance is just what I need.  The fact that they hold together with your Weatherby velocities dispells a lot of rumors.

Mike - What can I say ?  The information you posted will certainly save me a lot of time & confusion in developing accurate loads !

A heardy "THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL"!  &  I will post my results.       Jim