Author Topic: Small game Handguns  (Read 1820 times)

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Offline coyotejoe

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Small game Handguns
« on: June 08, 2008, 10:34:15 AM »
Over the past half century I have tried out a great variety of handguns for the small game role. These would include the S&W kit gun, Ruger Bearcat and single six, small to mid size .22 autos, .32 H&R mag revolvers, .38 specials of the lighter variety, T/C Contender in .22 and .30 carbine, etc.
  While there is no one gun that is "best" for any and all situations, I have narrowed my selection down to these two and with a very strong preference for one of them.
The AMT Automag ll in .22 WMR is a splendid little gun, it functions reliable with ever brand and bullet type I could find. From its six inch barrel I've chronographed 50 grain bullets over 1200 fps, 40 grain loads at 1400fps, and most recently the Remington 33 grain V-Max topped 1800 fps. That is plenty of flat shooting power and with the Burris Fastfire sight I've gotten one inch groups at 25 yards with several brands of ammo. From a solid field position I believe I'd have a pretty fair chance on the "larger small game" like jack rabbits and marmots out to 100 yards.  But take away the rest and I'm just too shaky to be confident  of braining a bunny at 25 yards and as for taking the head off a grouse, I'd need a rest at 15 yards.  So that is where the other gun comes in.
 It is a Super Comanche .45 Colt/.410 but forget the .45 Colt, mine is strictly a .410. I removed the rear sight and cut the sight boss down to a clean barrel. I also reduced the front sight by the same amount. This makes the gun a lot slicker into and out of the holster and makes it a "point & shoot" piece with no rear sight to clutter up the view of running or flying game. The grips are a "work-in-progress" at this point. I have a couple of slabs or rosewood coming which will be made a bit longer than the frame to resemble my favorite single action grip style, the 1860 Colt Army model. These guns throw a remarkable pattern with 3" shells of #6 or 7 1/2 shot, much better than the T/C Contender I owned thirty years ago, and are sure death on birds and bunnies at 25 yards. I may have to pass up an occasional animal out of range of the shot shells that perhaps I could have taken with the .22 WMR but that is more than compensated by the fact that I can hardly miss anything within range, even running or flying I have a pretty good chance.
  As photographed the Super Comanche weighs 36 ounces and the AMT .22WMR weighs 31, hardly a noticeable burden in a good spring clip shoulder holster. I made such a holster for the AMT and as soon as I've finished one for the Super Comanche it will be accompanying me a lot more. I find the 10" barrel sacrifices about 200 fps, that is actual chronographed loads from the pistol run about 940-980 fps versus the factory claim of 1150 fps for a 26" barrel. But even at that reduced velocity #7 1/2 shot seems adequate for game as large as jack rabbits and will drop a grouse without a quiver. While .410 shotshells are outrageously expensive for practice and play with clay birds, one box will last several years if reserved for actual hunting. These guns are not terribly accurate with .45 Colt loads, the reason I shed no tears over eliminating the rear sight, but I suppose it could be handy to carry along a couple of shells in case of a close encounter with bear or cougar. I have fired a lead bullet .45 Colt through the shotshell choke tube with no damage but that would be an emergency last resort. Firing shot loads through the .45 Colt tube produced a very nice, even pattern, much larger than with the shotshell choke but still effective to 20 yards and would be a better choice for snakes at short range.
  For a small game pistol the Super Comanche would be hard to beat even before considering the retail price of about two hundred bucks.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline NASTYGUNZ

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 11:58:41 PM »
I also hunt with a super comanche in 410....it does have a nice pattern but mine shot extreme left.......i have the rear sight all the way over and it still shoots more left but works for squirrels and such....id be interested in the mods oyu did on your gun>?

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 01:13:23 PM »
Take a careful look at your front sight, compare it with a straight edge along the frame and I'll bet you find it slightly off square, tilted a bit to the right, which is causing it to shoot left. The sight is on a band, retained by the choke tube. The thing which holds or is supposed to hold it square is a rounded tit on the rear of the band which fits into a U notch. They don't always get it right and I have seen some with front sights a bit off kilter. You can correct it by filing just a hair off on side of the tit so that you can rotate the band very slightly, go easy with the file, then hold the sight over to the left as you give the choke tube the last bit of tightening torque.
The photo below is the final version of my Comanche .410. It handles and points well for me and breaks clay birds very nicely.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Autorim

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2009, 04:04:20 PM »
coyotejoe,

That's quite a thorough post and it looks like you speak from considerable experience. I have been using a handgun in the field since about 1955 and IMHO a 4 or 6 inch .22 rimfire is hard to beat for most things.

I have larger revolvers and autos, but the .22 is the one that nearly always goes to the woods - usually a K22 or 617. I have had success on animals as large as coyotes and wild dogs. Not to say the .22 is a stopper, but it usually works.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 04:01:57 AM »
There is no question that a .22 can "do it all" if one is careful to keep it in the brain pan. I've killed coyote, fox, badger and 'coon with .22 shorts from small handguns but that was all trapline work at close range. When I got my first .22 rifle my dad admonished me "if you can't hit it in the head, don't shoot it with a .22". Over the past 60 years I've tested that a few times and found it sound advise. I've lost rabbits, squirrels and grouse with body shots with the .22 longrifle hollow points even from a rifle, but keep um in the head and they'll make meat.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Autorim

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2009, 03:27:37 PM »
Your dad gave you good advice. My hope is that some of the less experienced hunters on the forum take heed. My dad once had and employee who liked to headlight deer - illegally of course - and his favorite was a head shot with a .22 short. Very little noise for the game warden to hear, but it worked for him - lots of times.

Offline NASTYGUNZ

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2009, 11:24:46 AM »
I use a 2 rig shoulder holster for small game....in one I carry .22 a taurus tracker with a reddot for the ground shots and either the .410 super comanche or contender in .410 for the tree shots.....






Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 03:54:51 AM »
Sweet! I too like shoulder holsters and have built them for both my AMT .22 mag and the Super Comanche .410 but I carry one or the other not both together.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline NASTYGUNZ

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 03:57:48 PM »
Heres a red squirrel that got Comancheed... ;)...I took the front sight off the gun and am gunna try your suggestion out...if I could get it shooting off the front sight i wouldnt mind getting rid of the rear sight.


Offline NASTYGUNZ

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 04:05:49 PM »
Have you ever done any trigger work on your Comanche? mine has a very heavy pull.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 03:49:28 AM »
Yes, I've reworked the triggers on three of them. It's a simple "stoner job" on the engagement surfaces but is a bit tricky to reassemble with the springs in the right place.
 One downside I've found is that parts are difficult to obtain. A friend lost the front sight off his Comanche, didn't realize it is held only by the choke tube, and I've been trying for two years to get a replacement. Customer service totally sucks.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline NASTYGUNZ

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 11:28:52 AM »
I was thinking on the front sight of grinding the top thin part flush with the blockier part then drilling n tapping it for a tru-glo red or green bead...I had never heard of the gun until I saw one in a local gunshop with box, papers 2 chokes and choke wrench for 135.00 and I came back and looked em up online and read some good stuff so I went back and bought it...I like it and use it alot even though its the cheapest gun in the armory lol...Ive taken squirrel, muskrat,birds,etc with it and it does have a good pattern...the only issue was the shooting wayyyyyyyy left which I have read about other people having that problem...I use 3 inch 7 1/2 shot...theres a fella on crowbusters whose pa mods em up pretty good...it and the contender are about my favorite small game guns especially in the more populated areas.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Small game Handguns
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2009, 12:56:53 PM »
That's exactly what I did with my front sight. If you're careful you can drill it a bit off center to the left to correct the POI issue as well. Just don't get carried away, very very slightly off to the left should do it. I never had that problem, mine shot center from the get go as did one I gave to a friend. Of course I never fire bullets out of mine so if it were just a bit off the .410 pattern would mask the fact. I also concur with your choice of loads, the seven and a halfs are good to 25 yards even for pheasants and larger shot only thins the pattern.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.