Author Topic: Handgun safety (Read 973 times)

Dragoon · « **on:** August 11, 2003, 03:00:16 PM »

Sorry about posting this here but I didn't see a gun safety forum...

A friend of mine was discussing a show that he saw over the weekend that kind of sparked a debate over gun safety and what constitutes self defense. The show was actually about "bigfoot", the topic really does not effect the debate, anyway on this show some campers were out in the middle of nowhere in the woods (one or maybe more of the campers were supposedly police officers) While in camp someone or "something" started throwing rocks at the campers and then one of the "officers" pulled his gun and started firing into the darkness. Now I have to admit that I did not see the show, so my facts may be a bit off but I was absolutely shocked at my friends apparent approval of what I would consider to be blatant disregard for safety. I would never fire a shot at something that I could not see. I would not even take a shot at an animal that I could see if it was not a clean shot. To me, firing blindly into the darkness is one of the most irresponsible things that a person could ever do. My friend says that no one else was in the woods but to me that statement sounds like someone saying that they thought that their weapon was unloaded after a bad accident has taken place. He is sticking to his position and I strongly disagree so I just wanted to post and see what you guys thought about such a situation.

The debate grew into a totally separate argument which is: If someone had a rock and was threatening to throw it at you (and you were armed) would you shoot that person? My answer to that question is a resounding "NO" but yet again he disagrees with me and jokingly says that I am now against "self defense". LOL! I am in no way against self defense, I simply feel that deadly force is something that is only used as a last resort and to me a rock does not constitute deadly force. And yes I do realize that a rock can seriously injure you and maybe even have a slight chance of killing you but in my opinion this would not constitute the use of deadly force. Am I wrong here?

One last question: If a police officer were confronted with a man armed with a rock would the officer be justified in shooting that individual? I would hope not but I could be wrong.

It seems that everyone is against me on these issues (which really does surprise me) so I wanted to get the general feeling from the group here.

Thanks,
Dragoon

DennisB · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2003, 04:03:49 PM »

Dragoon:

Touchy subject, sure to get a few answers. For argument sake, remember that Goliath didn't sweat a kid with a rock, either. :grin:

Dragoon · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2003, 04:17:41 PM »

Quote

For argument sake, remember that Goliath didn't sweat a kid with a rock, either.

LOL! I asked my wife the question before telling her my opinion and that is exactly what she said! Even my wife is at odds with me on this :oops:

Does anyone at all agree with me

jhm · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2003, 04:24:56 PM »

Dragon: Over the years many people have been killed by rocks (in detroit where I grew up we called them alley apples) anyhow just one rock being thrown in my direction I would probably back up and away but if they continued throwing them well I can only be backed into a corner so far.

JIM

DennisB · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2003, 04:35:56 PM »

Dragoon:

It aint really a matter of disagreeing with you. Your perspective isn't necessarily wrong. Each of us, in a confrontation, will have to make some quick decisions with lasting affects. I'm an older guy who's been on the giving end of burglaries, thefts, and even a knifepoint donation to a couple of thugs. I'm not inclined to let it happen again. But, I've also seen what lawyers can do. It pays to take a concealed carry course and learn your state and local laws on the use of force. Now, as for shooting blindly into the night sky, well, dunno about that....

kciH · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2003, 06:28:47 PM »

If someone is stupid enough to throw rocks at someone who is armed, the overall gene pool would probably be enhanced by removing them from it.

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2003, 04:39:09 AM »

Hoo Boy - this one's gonna go far. You have to agree with Dragon on the safety issue, with jhm on the alley apple potentials and with both sides, actually.

Truth is, this is all 2nd hand information and hearsay. Noe of us who responded or are responding saw the show so we don't know if Dragons friend is yanking his chain or recounting what was actually demonstrated.

Truth is, you never go shooting blindly anywhere, period. Common sense should speak for itself in that regard. On the other hand we have the David and Goliath conflict and rocks can kill, especially when thrown by a sling or from an overpass at vehicles moving 60 mph or better.

You can pizz off a lot of people farting around in the woods at night with a bunch of pebbles but I would think that if a Bigfoot/Sasquatch was gonna toss something at you to show his disdain or chase you away, it would either be a rock big enough to cave in your skull or some of his own schmidt to show you what he thought of your camping out in his front yard.

I have a great tendency to avoid the 'what if' scenario. Those are traps set by people who just love to trick you into a quicksand pit. It's like the bunch of idjits who go sneaking around a lover's lane during 'rush hour' to see who or how many couples they can interupt - it's great fun for them but bad news for anyone who gets interrupted, as those who favor fun in the great outdoors have testified.

It reminds me of a funny thing that happened to one of my dogs the other night. I let them out to do their business before bed and one went down to fertilize the apple tree in front of the house. While he was deciding on how to posture the floodlights picked up on a mouse that was running up and down one of the big branches just over his head. The mouse was trying to get at some of the apples that had come up early. Well, a couple of the small ones dropped and either landed near enough to startle him or bounced off his head and the poor guy just couldn't figure it out. It's like making the mistake of sitting under a hickory tree when the nuts are dropping - you could swear someone was beaning you on purpose.

When something like that TV show is presented out of context, you have to take it out of context and back away from it. Tell whoever you would need to see that show before you could comment.

2 more cents worth here. Mikey.

willis5 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2003, 09:02:16 AM »

back away if they are throwing... sure. But if they are coming at you to use it as a head-pounder... they blast away.

Oh yeah. I agree with the no shooting blindly and only shooting if I have a clear shot, but if someone was coming at me to kill me, I am getting off as many in that direction as possible reguardless of whether I have a perfect shot... 2 cents

PaulS · « **Reply #8 on:** August 14, 2003, 01:35:30 PM »

Well I get to muddy this up a bit further by looking at it from my State's perspective. In Washington (the State) the legality of it goes like this:

You have thright to defend yourself with whatever force is appropriate and reasonable.

Deadly force may be used (by an individual citizen, not a LEO) when there is the immenent threat of grievous bodily harm or death ....
... or to stop a felony in progress.

By our laws, if you can move out of danger there is no cause for deadly force and even the self defense become gray. If, however someone in the party was injured by the rock throwing you could claim self defense with reasonable and appropriate action. (rushing him as a group and detaining him for arrest.)

Personally, and remeber I am a minister, I would circle out and see if I could find the perp. I would then hold him for police while restraining him with the least amout of force that was necessary. My brother would have circled out and found him and waited until he was going to throw the next rock and put a 44 though his head. He would then come back to camp and told everyone that he scared him away.

PaulS

myronman3 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2003, 04:43:35 PM »

one of the funniest things i have ever seen was on the news in the west bank. some arab protester was throwing rocks at an israeli soldier; well one of the rocks cones the soldier in the head, stunnig him for a moment. then the soldier drops to a knee, taking aim. the guy that threw the rock got this look on his face like "oops, maybe that wasnt so smart". a split second later, he fired, and dropped the guy instantly.
i saw this shortly after events in somolia unfolded, i was a soldier at the time. as if some should have to explain to you that throwing rocks at a guy carrying a machine gun is not a good idea.
i would not fire blindly into the night unless i felt REALLY threatened. even then i doubt i would fire blindly at anything. i like to make every bullet count. chances are some tough talk would have scared whoever off; when it comes to killing it would have to be a definate threat that i couldnt retreat from safely.
the situtation would dictate...

KING · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2003, 05:33:32 PM »

Yup............stuff sure gets interesting. First of all it takes a great deal of stupidity to shoot blindly into the dark...........at anything. Under those circumstances if a person...or a a bigfoot was hit................your friend would be charged,and inturn rightly so.(it is also illegal to attempt or to attempt to kill anything like the sasquatch ). Now.........a point to consider....are these rocks the size of a marble...........or a football/basketball. Are these(latter) rocks comming in from a high arching angle(something really bigger that I am is tossing them,and they are going to be lethal)or is the tragectory real flat(former). If they are the large ones,I,am otta here....if they are the smaller ones,someone is going to get his butt kicked. As for self def. with the bad guy having a rock....yup.....you can shoot.......BUT...........it better be that he is very close( needs Intent and Capaability),has the intention of killing or injuring you very badly,and you can not get away. A rock the size of a baseball at close quarters will do it. I think that you have more intelligence than your friend has,better sense also,about shooting blindly into the dark A large rock is no less lethal than a tire iron or a baseball bat for that matter. Now...........if these guys were police officers,(and I were one for 32 years) I would make sure that maybe they found another occupation . Stay safe..............King

KING · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2003, 05:46:05 PM »

Dragoon..I missed a comical point here. Your friend stated " that there was no one else in the woods"........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........do rocks now go against gravity and pick themselves up and run at people?

??. I think the answer is obviouse......yes.....someone else was in the woods. As a retired Police officer...yes...........I would not hesitate to shoot someone if they were going to brain me with a rock............again we have to define the term" rock"..............we also have to look at distance,intent of the bad guy,and if you are able to get out of there. You already have the answer if you cant move,and he is going to brain you......also.........dont read way to much into this.............use common sense.......and stay alive,,,,stay safe..king :-D :-D :shock:

Savage · « **Reply #12 on:** August 15, 2003, 01:31:17 AM »

Means, intent, opportunity=BANG! Shooting into the darkness NO!
Stay Safe,
Savage

bobg · « **Reply #13 on:** August 15, 2003, 12:59:00 PM »

I think King has said it all. And very well also. I agree with everything he said.

bobg

454Puma · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2003, 06:48:34 PM »

Yep a well thrown rock is just as deadlly as a bullet- intent- removal from the gene pool!! Shooting blindly into the dark-nope! :shock:

williamlayton · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2003, 01:35:36 AM »

do not shoot blindly.
blessings