Author Topic: Encore 6 BR Problem  (Read 811 times)

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Offline Jay HHI6818

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« on: August 31, 2003, 03:46:00 AM »
I sure hope someone can explain this one to me. I have a 16 inch 6BR Encore barrel and when I was shooting it yesterday the cases were EXTREMELY dirty when I took them out.
Barrel lug stamped .270 Neck.
New full length resized Lapua 6BR Brass
Loaded round neck O.D. .268
Fired 60 rounds and only 20 of them will let a bullet go into the neck. It gets better. I measured the O.D. of the cases that a bullet will go in .271 and  the ones that a bullet will not fit in measures .267 & .268.
I was using N130 with Nosler 55 gr B.T. & Hor. 58 V-max ,N135 with Nosler 70 B.T. and Sierra 75 H.P.

Offline KYODE

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2003, 06:04:44 AM »
i'm not a knowledgable person on the subject, but maybe your load is too light, and not sealing off the neck during firing.
i'm also not knowledgable about dimensions, but my vvcg 6br barrel has a .272 neck. using h322 powder and lapua brass, i have had no dirty cases as of yet, but i have shot max loads.
only trouble so far is in sizing the lapua brass with a redding sizer for the tight custom chamber. the once fired reloaded rounds were tight to chamber. redding replaced my size die with one hand picked for closer tolerance. havn't tried it yet, but they make a small base sizer if it doesn't.
lapua is a heavier, thicker brass than remington. maybe that is affecting something somewhere. i would assume thats why my redding sizer didn't function properly :? i bet someone can help you with this, if you just ask around enough. sorry, i can't be much help :D

Offline Jay HHI6818

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2003, 04:43:52 PM »
Hi Kyode,
I'm using a Redding 3 die set for my 6BR too. The only trouble I had was after my barrel came back from the manufacture which machined the barrel lug off and welded on another one, I had to full lenght resize the brass. Neck sizing wouldn't let the action close without slamming it shut a couple of times. This is the first firing on the full lenght sized brass so I'll be waiting to see what happens when I resize it again.

Well I took eveyones advice and used MORE powder. Looked in the Nosler manual for the 70 gr B.T. and 32.5 grs was max. Loaded 10 rounds with 32.0 grs and a bullet will drop in the fired case. Going to have to back off a little as the Encore action was a little hard to open on 4 rounds.I shot the other ammo I had loaded and here are the results.

28.0 grs. H322  
Nosler 70 B.T. bullet won't drop in fired case.
Sierra 75 HP   bullet will drop in fired case.

29.0 grs. H322 same results as above.

29.0 grs H322 Berger 62 HP Nope.
20.0 grs H322 Berger 62 HP Nope.

Offline Bug

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I'm not sure I understand...
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2003, 02:35:28 AM »
A bullet SHOULD drop into a fired case! That shows you have clearance between the case neck and the chamber wall. Except for "tight-necked" benchrest chambers (where neck wall thickness is tightly controlled), you should have about 0.0015"-to-0.002" clearance between your loaded round's neck diameter, and your chamber neck. This allows the case to expand on firing, and release the bullet. If it doesn't, you run into pressure problems in a hurry!
  The fact that neck sizing gives you difficulty closing, probably has nothing to do with the size of the neck, but with the location/profile of the shoulder. Most likely, when you neck size, you are creating a very slight bulge at the body/shoulder junction. That is probably creating your closing problem. You can check this if you have a micrometer reading to ten-thousandths. Measure the shoulder before neck sizing, and after. I would expect an increase in the neighborhood of 0.0005" to 0.0015". Do full-length resized cases give the same problems with closing? If this doesn't check out, get back, and we can look further.>>>>>Bug.
It's The Little Things That Matter.

Offline Clev

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2003, 08:04:27 PM »
Jay  turn your case necks, to fit your barrel or buy
Rem brass and try again, the necks are more than likely too thick. and watch you primes on Lapua brass preassure will build quick and pirce the primer :shock:

Offline jsh

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2003, 03:43:55 AM »
Jay I am in the same boat with ya. My neck is a .270, I wanted a tight chamber and that is what I got. For the time being I am going with a .266 and have seen no pressure signs since then. If your neck is to thick, like the above mentioned, the pressure will spike REALLY fast. The first 2 I ran down the tube in mine blew the primers.
I would say to take 2 pieces of brass and turn the necks to say .265, load and fire them this should give you a good idea of what your neck chamber size is. Are you using bushing dies?
 I don't know what the Rem brass thickness is but I am going to get a handful the next time I run across some just to have.

Offline Jay HHI6818

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2003, 04:13:01 PM »
Thanks for all of the replies. I'm going to stay with the Lapua brass and just load them a little hotter.

1) Barrel Stamped .270 neck O.D (I'm questioning)

2) Loaded round .268 Neck O.D.

3) .002 should be enough clearance.

4) Fired round that bullet will drop in  .271 and there is a little play with the bullet

How can a case expand .001 larger than the .270 with  spring back?????

I have a MOA (www.moaguns.com) falling block pistol chambered in 6.5BR that is tight necked and I had to turn the necks to get a round to chamber. I have .002 clearance and have no problems with it at all.

Offline jsh

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2003, 07:16:57 PM »
Jay, don't forget the MOA and the Encore are two different animals.

"How can a case expand .001 larger than the .270 with spring back????? "

Offline Bug

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Hmmmmm,
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2003, 01:11:14 AM »
I think what I would do now, is a chamber cast out of Cerrosafe. Remove the extractor, before you begin! And I would be sure & make it at least 1" of the bore also. As you surmised, cases should not come out of a chamber .001" larger in the neck, than what the chamber neck is supposed to be. Also, a chamber cast will let you resolve any case length issues. In your original post, you complained of dirty/smoked case necks. I too, would contribute to low pressures, or a powder too slow to reach proper pressure in your barrel. And I will still siick by my contention that yuor neck sizing is causing a bit of problems with closing on a loaded round (you never answered my questions there).  Whatever the problem, If you stick with us, we will get it resolved.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bug.
It's The Little Things That Matter.

Offline Jay HHI6818

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2003, 02:43:50 AM »
Hi Bug,
 I agree with you on the resizing issue under normal conditions.  Don't forget that this barrel went back to the manufacture and they determined that the hinge pin hole was oversized and not in the "correct" location. What ever that means. I could close the barrel with a .010 feeler guage between the barrel and frame. They welded on a new lug and I'll bet its not in the same location so the headspace is different.

Offline Bug

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It may well have changed,
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2003, 03:58:29 AM »
I don't doubt that your headspace DID change, with the mounting of a new lug. It will, however, remain constant. You will have to reset your dies to match your current headspace (I'm sure you did this).  What I was referring to, was the very slight bulging if the shoulder/body juncture, when you use a neck sizing die. That could cause you some hard-closing/lock-up difficulties.
  In your original post, you cited smoked/dirty necks, different diameter necks in fired cases, and some concern about whether or not a bullet would fit in a fired case. Let's exclude a deliberately tight-necked chamber, say of benchrest proportions, for the time being. Given proper technique, a suitable pressure curve, and quality brass(Lapua certainly is), there is no reason you cannot assemble satisfactory handloads. You just have to eliminate the variables, one-by-one. The dirty necks tell me the pressure is low, period.
 In a follow-up post, you cited difficulty opening. Did the "barrel drop" sequence stop when the extractor hit the cam? Or, was the finger lever just hard to depress? I define sticky extraction as where the barrel will unlatch, but stops when it gets to the point of extraction. You then have to press down on the barrel, or give it an up-and-down shake, to effect extraction. I would do a chamber cast, at any rate. You can get some pretty good info from it.
  Do some more shooting, and let us know what the results are.  Sorry for goin' on so, but I do have a real interest in helping to correct your difficulties, and also, I love a challenge like this.>>>>>>>>Bug.
It's The Little Things That Matter.

Offline Hammer47

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resizing
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2003, 04:58:12 PM »
Jay... Did you full length resize the brass AFTER the bbl was returned?  If any dimension changed a full resizing is in order.  Regards... Woody

Offline Jay HHI6818

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Encore 6 BR Problem
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2003, 03:37:33 PM »
Hi Woody,
 Yes, I full lenght resized the brass after the barrel was returned and to answer Bugs question, the finger lever just hard to depress. I try loading up some warmer loads next week.