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Offline jamaldog87

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guns show
« on: April 18, 2009, 10:28:43 AM »
 i saw on  20/20 "if i only had a gun" that someone can just just walk into a gun show and buy all the guns they want with no ID needed.   Can you really just walk into a guns show and buy any guns you wanted with no paper work or anything?? cuase they made it look like i could just walk into a gun show and buy a ak-47,mags,ammo and anything else at the same time and not need anything showing who or how old i am.

I buy my guns stuff at a gun store but i want to know if it really for real. I have never been to a gun show.
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Offline spruce

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Re: guns show
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 12:08:50 PM »
That is just left-wing propaganda.  The same laws and regulations apply at gun shows as they do anywhere else.

That's why I always watch FOX news!
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Offline Swampman

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Re: guns show
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 12:17:13 PM »
I'd say they are telling the truth for the most part.  If you buy from a dealer at a gun show, it's no different than buying from a gun store.  If you buy from a non-dealer, you don't need anything but cash.  You don't need ID to buy gun magazines anywhere.
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Offline Ramhunter

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Re: guns show
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 04:56:26 AM »
"If you buy from a dealer at a gun show, it's no different than buying from a gun store.  If you buy from a non-dealer, you don't need anything but cash." 

This is not correct.  State laws still apply.  For example, in Michigan, a License to Purchase a Pistol is required prior to obtaining a pistol whether from a retail dealer or a privare sale at a gun show or at any other place.  The only exception is that a license to purchase is not required if the buyer has a CCW permit.
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Offline spruce

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Re: guns show
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 05:47:12 AM »
The anti's are trying to convince the public there is a "gun show loophole".  There is no loophole, they are using that propaganda to try to pass legislation to ban ALL private sales of guns (long guns & handguns) so that all sales between private citizens would have to be conducted thru a dealer.

There are two objectives here.  Number one it drives up the cost for gun owners.  Number two, and most important (to the anti's) many more guns will be registered, hence easier to track down and confiscate.

Any news agency that reports there is a "gun show loophole" is either totally ignorant or (more likely) biased.  The major network news organizations have never let the facts get in the way of "reporting" a juicy, biased story that furthers their own left-wing agenda!
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Offline Swampman

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Re: guns show
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 09:43:52 AM »
Guns sold through a dealer are not registered.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Graybeard

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Re: guns show
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 09:55:28 AM »
Quote from: Swampman on April 19, 2009, 09:43:52 AM
Guns sold through a dealer are not registered.

In most states that's true but not in all states.
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Offline v-man

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Re: guns show
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 10:32:50 AM »
regarding the original question; Why are you so shocked that you can make such a purchase at a gun show. I can make also make that purchase (or sale) at a garage sale or at work, always could and have. I want it that way. Thank God that in my state and many others I can still buy and sell my private property without "paperwork" as long as there is not a "licensed professional business" at one end of the transaction. 20/20 compared the regulations involved in a haircut as being more controlled than a gun purchase. Not a fair comparison cause you are also free to get a haircut privately with out paperwork and a professional if you desire. My wife has cut mine many times. Comparing apples to apples the regulations and tracking on a "professional" gun sale are much more comprehensive than on a haircut. My current barber doesn't know my name, age or address. I do believe with private gun sales you are supposed to ask for ID to verify residency and age as well as asking if they are a convicted felon. Nothing to stop them from lying but I asways ask incase it's ATF looking for a cheap bust.
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Offline spruce

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Re: guns show
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009, 12:55:57 PM »
I guess I shouldn't have used the word "registered" when talking about long guns.

They are not actually registered, but FFL holders are required to keep permanent records of all long gun transactions.  These records are subject to BATF inspection at any time, so while not "registered" there certainly is a paper trail!
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Offline charles p

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Re: guns show
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2009, 11:08:41 AM »
At gun shows in NC, certain booths advertise that they offer private sales, vs gun dealer sales.

Seems that a gun show and a garage sale are not the same.  When someone purchases guns privately and takes them to a show to sell, they ought to be treated as a dealer.  There should be a level playing field.  If you want to run an ad in the paper and sell your grandpa's long gun, that is different.  You don't do this in a different city every weekend to feed your family.
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Offline v-man

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Re: guns show
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2009, 12:46:33 PM »
Charles,
I'm not in the business nor am I a dealer but once a friend and I split the cost of a table and put some mags, holsters and about 8 used guns out for sale as a private owner. It didn't give us any unfair advantage or uneven playing field. Our guns were used and the selection limited. theri guns were new and a huge variety. They were all appreciative that we wre there supporting the association that put on the show. All legal and makes sense.
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Offline charles p

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Re: guns show
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 10:38:20 AM »
Were you required to keep records on the gun sales or perform any background check?  If I was a felon, could I have bought a gun from you more easily than at a dealer's booth?  I admit I don't know a lot about how gun show dealer sales vs private sales work, but I can't imagine that a National Guard Armory or a City Civic Center would want to have improper sales going on right under their roof.

I'm not for more laws.  We have enough and we should enforce the ones we have.  Just curious and trying to learn what a private sale allows at a gun show.

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Offline v-man

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Re: guns show
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 12:48:37 PM »
Required to keep records - No, I don't want the govt to control what I do with my legally owned private property,
Required to do a background check - No, I don't want the govt to control what I do with my legally owned private property.
If you were a felon... Yes, but you would have to break the law to do it. I honor my legal obligation to ask for ID to verify state residency and verbally ask if a convicted felon. My disagreement with you is that you call it an "improper sale". That is your opinion. the law says you are wrong. Legally in my state it is not "improper". Some states don't allow it and some states do. That's the way it's supposed to be. The constitution federally recognizes certain inalienable rights. Each state puts their laws in place and if I don't like it I can challenge it in court or move to another state and still have the protection of the Constitution. What I don't want is more federal laws that are going to exert excessive control over me no matter what state I live in. Nows here's what might make some moderates mad. I would rather allow some felons to slip through the cracks and get their hands on a gun than to keep making laws that take away more of my liberty and more of my right to defend myself. No amount of laws will keep the bad guys from being bad guys. I want less, not more govt.
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Offline charles p

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Re: guns show
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 05:08:44 PM »
Don't disagree with anything you said.  Improper and illegal, however, mean different things to me.  It may be legal to make a sale to someone, but greed and a deaf ear to what is morally and/or legally correct, can make something seam "improper" for law abiding Christians.

Freedom does not mean that you can turn your back on ethical behavior, our laws, or our public safety.  Freedom will no longer exist when people do not feel a moral obligation to protect their families and neighbors.  I surely hope you don't need to sell a firearm badly enough to sell it to a criminal, regardless of your profit motive or what the law states.

This brings us right back to the jest of the question.  Why are private sales allowed at gun shows, when licensed dealers must conduct their business at a higher ethical level?
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Offline v-man

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Re: guns show
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 05:23:52 PM »
I really don't want to get into the proverbial "peeing" match but . . . I clearly said I qualify the buyer to make an honest attempt to not sell to a criminal. You said "law abiding" and"Christian" and "moral". Those are 3 different things. It is legal based on our laws. It does not violate any Biblical standard and therefore cannot be called un-Christian. And "morality" is a subjective value meaning if you feel that way the you should live that way but it would be un-Christian to force that value upon another or to judge another by one's own subjective morals. Charles, we have been so brainwashed that we have failed to ask the real question, 'Why do the dealers have to fill out the paperwork and do the background checks. That come closer to being illegal than anything we have discussed. ("Congress shall make no law . . . " 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights))
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