Unusual rifled English cannon a friend has

[cannonmn]

Looks like a candidate for electrolysis in the bore.  He measured bore at 2.6 in. but don't know if he did land-to-land or otherwise, could be like a 2.5 in. mountain rifle.  Tube is unmarked, strangely.  I don't have any meaurements except trunnion dia. is 2.4 in., and length between rimbases is 8.25 in.  Carriage is an interesting survival-wood, obviously over 100 years old, I'd say.

Can anyone enlighten us on this thing?  Where's Adrian?

[dominick]

 Whitworth had a 2 pounder [muzzleloader] that was mounted on a field carriage or mountain carriage.  It is similar and it has the rear sight post mount on the barrel.  There is a drawing of it in "Munitions of War" p.84.  Not sure about the rifling though, I think most of the Whitworth's have a hex shaped bore.

[Victor3]

 The cam-shaped part under the cascabel looks as though it might have originally been designed to rotate for setting elevation(?)

[cannonmn]

I think you are right in general, I suspect a part is missing, maybe something that sat on top of that, which then connected to the transverse hole in the cascabel.  I'm fairly well convinced the tube is the correct one for this carriage since the "fit" in the trunnion area is pretty unique, trunnion dia. vs. distance between rimbases, none of the tubes we have is even close to that.

[carronader]

Sir William George Armstrong  1810-1900. 
 
 http://www.civilwarartillery.com/inventors/armstrong.htm

[Bob Smith]

Not really my area of study, but won't the serial number give an estimate of the date?
Bob Smith

[A.Roads]

A very nice gun & I would say a quite uncommon example. I am assuming that the gun & carriage are matched & both are of Armstrong's manufacture, are there any markings on the barrel to confirm this?

It has a low serial number & I am fairly certain that this dates to the mid 1860's, certainly the style of barrel & carriage conform to this period. This was not long after Rifled Breech Loading gun designs had been superseded by Rifled Muzzle Loading guns, many would argue this was a retrograde step. Armstrong was at the forefront when it came to ordnance in England & examples of his guns are therefore plentiful, but most surviving examples are of a large to very large nature & finding an example of such small calibre is uncommon, I do not recall having even seen one before & certainly not one complete with carriage.

It does not conform to a British military pattern, the smallest RML was the 7 pr Mountain gun in bronze, then steel (this was in fact the first use of steel by the Ordnance dept as opposed to cast or wrought iron etc) & the external profiles are quite different from your friend's gun. So this is almost certainly a commercial example from his factory - assuming of course that the gun is an Armstrong, as it is quite likely to be.

I would suggest that the owner contacts the Royal Armouries at Fort Nelson to see if they can offer any solid information & also to bring it to their attention. It is a gem & a piece to be very pleased with indeed.
Adrian

[cannonmn]

Thanks for the info Adrian.  The friend who has it isn't interested in researching it, but it may soon find its way to another friend who would definitely research it (not me though!) 

[Bob Smith]

Looking through my records, I have a 9 inch gun by Armstrong and Co at Melbourne, Australia- 1867- no 873.

Then I have a pair of unknown calibres, at Oslo- 1871 2475 and 2575. Now all you need is someone with a 1869 date and you have it fairly bracketed.

Bob Smith

[cannonmn]

Just to explain a little bit about how I got the pix of this piece:

The owner offered to trade it for this item, which he needs since he has a cannon that's missing the item shown:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,173522.0.html

The owner of the hammer and lanyard didn't really want the Armstrong gun and carriage, so he offered to find another person who would want the Armstrong, and would trade the lanyard owner something he wanted.  That 3rd person who wants the Armstrong has a British bronze Royal mortar that the lanyard owner wants.  In the collecting world we call these deals a "round robin."  They are hard to do since as you can appreciate, trading such artifacts between two people is tough, and to get one arranged among three is tougher.

Any bets as to whether it will work out or not?  I hear there are already some problems with it, like a dealer who has inserted himself (and the root of all evil) into the process.

[A.Roads]

It does sound like an awkward & difficult transaction to successfully pull off,  I hope it works out well for all.

Any chance of some pics of the British Bronze Royal Mortar?

Adrian

[cannonmn]

Bore of the Royal mortar is of course 5.5 inches, so this mortar was roughly comparable to the US 24-pounder Coehorn.  I can't read the date on it in the pix, due to wear which has occurred, however this pattern of bronze Royal mortar would date from, I'm guessing, 1810-1820 based on some Coehorns I've seen that had identical lines.  We shot one of the 4.5 inch Coehorns dated 1819 in one of our videos.  Tanya was the gunner in that one.  The weight of the tube on the Royal mortar pictured is 155 lbs.  The bed is just a display stand, not an original bed of any kind, I'm sure.

[KABAR2]

Cannonmn,

In the first photo there appears to be an armored plate for a cannon is that part of this guns

set up? Or does it go to another cannon?

[cannonmn]

That plate is for a ca. 1900 Gatling gun.  I suppose he has the gun too but don't know.

[A.Roads]

A very nice royal mortar, these are my favourite artillery pieces & are rarely encountered outside of museums. Given the clarity of the markings visible in the pictures I would have expected that the maker's name & would be visible. I have one of these as well, it is my prized possession, sadly though many years of cleaning it have worn away the upper surface to a shocking extent - it would have graced an army barracks & been kept in gleaming condition. The maker & date are still discernable I & H KING 1807  (John & Henry King).
Adrian

[cannonmn]

Thanks for the info Adrian, nice mortar you have there.  Any chance you will ever be able to shoot it like we do with them here, or the Gov't regs on black powder too much to deal with?  Is the bed an original or an accurate reproduction-looks pretty good from here.