+P load questions

[jpuke]

I've seen +P loads mentioned many times in magazines for 38 Specials, 9mms, and 45 ACPs and I'm wondering what loading them entails.  Do you need brass that is specifically marked +P?  Does the gun have to be proofed for them?  I'm specifically thinking about making some 45 +P for my Ruger Blackhawk convertible but if they're unnecessarily hard on guns and brass I won't bother.

[hans g./UpS]

in 45ACP in a Blackhawk,I'd be hardly concerned about loads.The BH can take stiff 45 Colt loads.I don't know how your 45ACP brass -itself- would stand up.I use 20.0gr of 2400 with a 270gr fullwadcutter in 45LC in my BH for hunting.Have you considered directly contacting Hornady or Speer re +P 45ACP loads for your BH?

[Iowegan]

+P loads are increased pressure loads that provide a little higher velocity. Most reloading manuals publish +P loads for common calibers.  +P loads shouldn't be used in lighter frame guns but your Blackhawk is strong enough to handle the extra pressure. If you don't already have a good reloading manual, I would highly recommend you buy one. Speer, Hornady, Lyman, and others are good. Two manuals are even better so you can compare loads. Be careful when getting your loads too hot. The standard velocity loads are usually more accurate and subject the gun and shooter to less abuse.

[Duffy]

Your BH is heavy enough for +P ACP loads. The difference in +P 45 ACP brass is the web is thicker around the head. The only reason they do this is because in a auto pistol the bottom of the brass is not supported by the chamber because of the feed ramp.  It helps from blowing out at the bottom. In your BH you don't have this problem. I know the difference between my 4.5" P90 and BH 7.5" with a standard acp load is about 50 fps.  Shooting +P in the BH feels like a pop gun compared to shooting them in the auto so don't be deceived by the mild recoil the pressure is still there.

Ryan

[John Traveler]

jpuke and all:

+P designation was originally the designation for above- standard chamber pressures for .38 Special jacketed ammunition loaded for law enforcement use only.  This was back in the early 1970's when the standard police sidearm was universally the .38 Special revolver loaded with 158 g LRN bullets at about 800 fps.

Since handloaders normally have NO way of accurately measuring ammunition chamber pressures, the point is moot.  We can not duplicate +P specs, we can only use reloading manual data to approximate it.

Speaking of hot-loaded handgun calibers, please remember that statistically, a S&W M29 .44 Magnum needs retiming and adjustment after firing about 1500 factory loads.  Bad things happen when it is fired extensivly with hot loads:  cylinder gap, headspace, and timing changes, etc.

Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's, there was a period during which Ruger stopped chambering the .45 Colt Blackhawk because so many handloaders got into "hotrodding" reloaded ammunition to near-.44 Magnum velocities and many guns were returned to Ruger for repair.  

That said, the .45 Colt is probably a better platform for experimenting with hot loads for the simple reason that a smaller capacity case (.45 ACP or .45 Auto Rim) makes the powder charge/bullet combination more critical.  Sudden (and unhealthy) chamber pressure increases happen faster and with less warning.

Speaking of brass, no, there is no special brass that is specifically made or marked for higher-pressure loads.  If manufacturers did that, it would greatly increase the price of the manufacytured item (special tooling, inspections, packaging, liability, etc).  You might consider using .454 Casul case and cutting them down to .45 colt length.  I do believe they are thicker and stronger.  You will find that the primer pocket loosening is almost always the indication that the case is worn out.  this can happen in as little as two or three reloadings.

HTH
John

[Duffy]

This was Copied from Starlines order page.


45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external
dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case
in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less
internal capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

45 Super* is the same externally as the 45 Auto, but has a thicker web,
denser grain structure in the metal and special heat process which enhances
the durability of the case. Similar internal capacity as the 45 Auto. 45 Super
load data is available through ACE Custom 45's at (830) 257-4290.

*Loads to be shot ONLY in guns modified professionally to handle
extreme pressures. DO NOT SHOOT IN STANDARD 45 AUTO!

Note that they state up to 2 grains less capacity so if a person runs across +P brass they should be careful when loading it because of increased pressures. Another good reason to seperate your brass.

[securitysix]

Also copied from Starline's page:

38 SPL+P has no difference from the standard 38 SPL, other than headstamp designation for load segregation. Due to standard case design, will handle +P pressures with no problems.

9MM+P has no difference from the standard 9mm Luger other than headstamp designation for load segregation. Due to standard case design, will handle +P pressures with no problems.

So it depends on what you're doing.  Remember that when Elmer Keith was hotrodding .38 and .44 Specials, he had no +P brass and was using standard stuff.  Like the guys said, get a good manual or three and be careful.

[John Traveler]

Duffy,

Thanks for the update on strengthened brass.  I've been enlightened!

John