38 snub vs Kel-Tec 380

[surveyor47]

To be certain, I have had many more problems with factory ammo (Remington & Winchester) than I ever had with my handloads.  I have never had a problem with Speer, CCI or Federal ammo- period.  What happened to your ammo?  Did you recently WD40 it? Was it subject to rain? How old is the ammo?  Do you replace it and shoot the old stuff annually?  I would not pull more than a couple of bullets'; instead, I would return the box of ammo to Remington with a letter. 

Regardless that reloads can be more accurate and reliable than factory ammo, you dont have a product liability lawyer on payroll- Remington does.  Secondly, good factory ammo such as Federal has been engineered for the task, many factors taken into consideration.  Will your reload feature a bullet operating within its design perameters?  What are the design perameters of a cast semi wadcutter hollow point, if any at all?  At what velocity will it expand and how deep?  If you are like me, your reloads are the most accurate combination you find within a particular velocity range- period- not much else taken into consideration.  Im sure that they would work, and probably do an excellent job, but are they designed for personal defense?  Mine certainly aren't.   

I would purchase a couple of boxes of self defense ammo, Federal and Speer preferred, test them and shoot the box once per year, replacing the old ammo. That said, I have never seen a squib Federal or Speer round in any of my old ammo.   

[SHOOTALL]

S.S. At least you had the option to pull the triger again on a fresh round . With the auto not an option .
I also have gotten bad ammo from the comerical co.'s .
To this day i stay away fron cor-bon for that reason .

[Mikey]

Shootall - not necessarily so.  Squib loads in revolvers can easily move the bullet just far enough out to jam the cylinder and then you are just as screued as you would be with a squib load having stuck a slug in the barrel of your auto.  In both cases the firearm is rendered useless.

I have 'squibbed' myself a number of times with practice ammo and I have always found the cause to be a missing powder charge that happens, on occasion, with my progressive loader.  My defensive ammo is loaded by hand and every primer is checked for proper seating depth and each case is checked for its powder charge.  Every loaded cartridge is chambered in the revolver it will be carried in.  My semi-autos get the same treatment.  Mikey.

[SHOOTALL]

good point , but if it dosen't then you have a fresh round to work with .
guess its like the frog with wings , the what ifs never stop !

[funshooter2]

I like Graybeards answer to this question. In my case, I've carried a .380 for years and felt comfortable with it. Some of this was overseas and the .380 is easy to find ammo for there. My revolvers are all .357 mag in any barrel length with the thinking that I shoot Speer or Cor-Bon 125 - 135gr .38+P's in the 2" ccw Charter most of the time. If I accidently grab a speed loader of .357s in the middle of the night, the bullets will still work. If I had a .38, I'd be out of luck.
So for me the answer is which works with how I dress. Light dress is the P3AT in the front pants pocket, where it disappears. Heavier dress and it's the PF-P with the belt clip or vest pocket or the snubbie with .38+P's IWB or jacket pocket. In the winter, the Charter .357 in the side coat pocket with full .357s. The least carried is the P-111 unless I'm going long distance on by motor cycle, then it's in a shoulder or IWB.
I put all of these in a soda can every shot at point-blank to 21 feet or 7 yrds. I doubt that I would be able to justify further for self-defense in court. If I'm in the field, it is a 4" barreled .357mag in a belt holster. That will drop anything I'll run into around here. I have dropped one Dobberman with one shot from a 3" barrel .380 with Silver-tip HPs back in the late 70's.
Like others have said, carry what you shoot well with and will be able to carry all the time.   

[williamlayton]

A squib load can, I have seen the pictures, move the bullet into the barrel---that is not a good thing to pull a second trigger on.
Squib loads need to be reacted too as a dangerous to myownself situation.
I carry, on a regular basis, either of a .38 S&W or a PPK .380--in a front pocket most often--it gets hot in Houston.
Concealment is not a issue and I don't use a scabbard.
I also carry, on occasion, a P220 Sig, in my waist band with no scabbard and a "loose" colored T-shirt.
I have actually been known to just Mexican stuff any that I own. This is for those jump out and pump gas, or something situations.
I never carry a weapon on me when driving.
Blessings

[gwhilikerz]

I much prefer the 38 snubby. Am I the only guy who uses Barami hip-grip type grips on his carry guns? I love the simplicity of these things and to me they are much more comfortable than iwb's. And concealment is no problem, just wear your t-shirt out. Quick to get to, always in the same spot, secure. Can you tell I really like them?

[SHOOTALL]

William, its your choice of course but if you need to exit the vehicle in a hurry it may be nice to have a weapon on you that will come without having to locate and grab it . At least that is what most instructors PREACH !
Some say have 2 for just such a reason !

[Brett]

Depends on your level of knowledge and/or desire to learn the proper handling and care of the weapon.

Ease of operation:

Semi-auto pistols often have a plethora of levers and buttons (safeties, slide releases, decocking levers, magazine releases, etc.) that you will have to be intimately familiar with if you are going to trust your life to it.  You had also learn and practice the TAp-RAck-Bang drill in case of a stove pipe (failure to fully eject a spent case) or Failure to Fire (FTF). 

Revolvers - Point gun, squeeze trigger, bang!   In the 1 in a 1,000 chance that it does not go bang, squeeze the trigger again.


Care and feeding:

An auto loader requires more maintenance and more mechanical aptitude than does a revolver.  If an automatic pistol is carried in a pocket, especially without a pocket holster, it will collect lint and debris that can cause a  (FTF) at the most inconvenient time.  To avoid this I recommend two things, 1. Use a holster. 2. Field strip, (entails the removal of the slide and barrel), clean and test fire any auto pistol used for concealed carry at least once a month. 

Revolvers on the other hand usually operate without a hitch even when they are filthy dirty and don't require the removal of any parts for a general cleaning.  However, I still recommend the use of a holster as a safety measure.   This goes for ladies hand bag carry as well.  Keep you piece in a separate compartment away from hair brushes, lip stick, ballpoint pens, car keys or any other objects that could get entangled  in the trigger causing an Accidental Discharge (AD).  Or better yet invest in one of those handbags designed specifically for CCW holders with a built in easy access  holster.

Auto-pistols can be ammo sensitive, not wanting to feed some brands or types of ammo properly causing jambs and FTFs.

Though a revolver may shoot some ammo more accurately than an other I have yet to see or hear of anyone experiencing a jamb or FTF due to a particular brand or style of ammo.

Hope this helped.

[slim rem 7]

  dang this a good thread .. i mean since the two discussed here as favorites are the two i own..i smarter than the average bear

[jdul]

I have a SS mod 85 Taurus, very good gun, but heavy, it stays in the safe. I carry a KT P380 w/golden sabres, and a Crimson Trace Laser, stashed in a Galco pocket holster that comes with the CT laser, it hides nicely in front pocket, or watch pocket in jeans (guns have to be holstered in Ohio), can be drawn in less than 2 sec. from either place. guns in ankle holsters are hard to retreive, and uncomfortable to me. I like so many others have a cardbox full of holsters, but to me,gun weight,and accessability,are my primary considerations. personal preference.......... Jim   <><

[SHOOTALL]

another difference may be plastic vs. metal . Yes the Glock and others have been thru. endurance test after test and Alum. revolvers do wear out .
BUT , a plastic gun over time just sitting there what happens to it ? We use alot of plastic ( yes there are many types for sure ) 10-20-30 years will it change ? will it weaken ? will it be un-effected ? I don't know , but in the plumbing industry plastic has an expected life .
SOMETHING TO CONSIDER .

[DenLee]

I carry my 637 w/CT more than the P3AT in the front pocket. The 380 sometimes goes in the back pocket. One or the other is usually with me and that is all that matters.

[Ron T.]

I've carried a Kel-tec P3AT every day for over 5 years whenever I'm outside the house.  I tried several different brands of +P ammo and settled on the Federal 90 grain Hi-Shok hollow points.

They have enough muzzle energy at short range to get the job done and the P3AT is small enough to be carried in the front pocket of my pants in a holster (if you like) or without a holster... your choice.  Either way, you don't know it's there unless you "feel" a "situation" coming on... and then, it's very "comforting" to reach down and touch it.

The + side of a holster is that it breaks up the outline of the pistol in your pocket and it helps to keep the pistol lint-free.  The "downside" of the holster is that it makes it a bit slower to take it out of the holster and get it into action if you need it.

However, the small, flexible leather holster I have (don't know the brand, it doesn't say) leaves the handle and part of the trigger guard outside the holster.  However, the holster has a stainless, spring steel clip on the back of it which enables me to clip it to my belt or outside my pants which makes drawing it fairly easy... or it can be clipped inside my pants which makes it less "available" to some degree.  I can carry it clipped to my belt or pants as well if I leave my shirt hanging out, but that looks "sloppy" and is not always an option.

I've found that if carried in a holster, the little pistol doesn't get nearly as "dirty" (pocket lint) and doesn't need to be cleaned more than once every 3 months or so.

Without the holster. the pocket lint will cause problems if not cleaned at least once a month.

I had a little bit of a jamming problem (stove-piping, failure to eject, etc.) at first, but sent my Kel-Tec back to the factory and they smoothed it up.  Now, after about 400 rounds, it has fed properly without any problems for the last 300 rounds and doesn't jam anymore.

I'd rather carry a full-sized 1911A1 because I have faith in the .45 ACP round, but I've found them far too heavy and too big.  The P3AT is about perfect for me since it weighs so little loaded (about 10.3 oz.) with 7 rounds...  6 in the magazine and one in the chamber.

I won't leave the house without the Kel-Tec .380... it serves my purposes quite well.

I also have two S&W 2" Chief's Specials... but they're too "fat" (cylinder), too big and too heavy for comfortable carry and concealment... and the 158 grain .38 Special round has only a slight edge in "foot/pounds" of bullet energy over the .380+P's... and only 5 shots rather than the 7 shots I have in the P3AT Kel-Tec.

I recommend the Kel-Tec P3AT... and I'd send your's back to Florida to Kel-Tec and have them eliminate the jamming.  After all, it has a "life-time guarantee" to the original buyer... so use it.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[SHOOTALL]

the airweight S&W to heavy ? carry one everyday for at least 10 years now hadn't noticed the weight problem . A 158 gr LSWHP +P is  close to a 85-90 gr 380 ? really .
I find the smallish auto hard to grasp in my pocket and find the small cyl. of the body guard holds my pocket open just enought to let my hand slide in an get a good grip on the gun . My pocket holster made by backwoods leather covers the trigger and seems much safer than an un protected trigger when carried in a pocket ( but that's just me ). I have owned the Kel-Tec and tried the Ruger really to small for my hand ( but again that's just me ).

[SHOOTALL]

i checked for us a winchester 380 silvertip 85 gr has energy at muzzle of 189 ft.lbs.
a winchester 158 gr.lead swhp +P has 278 ft.lbs. of energy at the muzzle ain't that close to 33% more energy ?

[DenLee]

I carry my 637 w/CT more than the P3AT in the front pocket. The 380 sometimes goes in the back pocket. One or the other is usually with me and that is all that matters.

I should add with pocket holster and good ammo.

[VARMONTER]

i don't have either.I  carry a sig 239 40 sw and when i can't, an Naa Guardian  32 acp
I can shoot the guardian well enough But it is not a range gun and can hurt at times.
  I bought it thinking summer use easier to conceal. ..(and it is easier to conceal.)
I found a fanny pack called tommys gun sack. Now i can carry the sig most of the time
in the summer without being noticed (by most)..So the little 32 acp sees little duty .
  I handled a sw 642 with a ct laser grip at a gun show a while back and am now lusting after
this particular snubby in .38.. ..So many guns so little money...My take on the keltec is about how i feel
about my mouse NAA guardian. Nice small reliable(so far) little pocket gun .But I won't shoot it as much as my 40 because it doesn't fit my hand well so hurts when i shoot it.(I think the trigger guard hits my index finger). I love my sig 239 perfect cc .Shoots well and .40 firepower..

[ice]

I have a 36 Smith and the Kel Tec 380.
Ninety five % of the time I will pick up the Kel Tek. It is so much easier to carry and conceal, especially in warm weather.

[Rex B]

I've carried a Keltec for years, just recently switched to a LCP.
The trick to making these feel right in your hands is to add the pinky extension to your mags.
It just doesn't feel right to have Mr. Pinky hanging out there in the air.
The extension is in just the right place to balance muzzle flip.   
Try it.

I've tried to pocket carry a 642, but it just doesn't work for me.
And IWB just doesn't fit my physique. I wish it did.

[Robert357]

I have both a KelTec P3 AT and a Taurus 850 Ultralite in 38 Special.  I also have a variety of other handguns that I have used for CC.  When I go hiking in the back deep woods, I carry concealed a Rem 44 Mag snub nose as the tree huggers where I live do not like to share the world with people who carry open.

In "civilization" I have been lately carrying the KelTec P3AT most of the time.  While I agree with you on the feel and I have some problems with shooting too many rounds without having the front of my trigger finger badly brused, It fits in my front pocket so well, that I go everywhere with it, which is the idea behing concealed carry.  Most of my other concealed carry handguns require an inside the waist holster at 4 o'clock or small of back. 

I have a homemade pocket holster that holds an extra magazine and still fits in my front pocket.  When I don't mind a inside the waste belt holster, I upgrade to one of the following (depending on where I am going, what I am wearing and what I have practiced with recently at the gun range): a 9x18 PA-63, a Taurus 850 in 38 Special, a 357 Magnum Ruger Security Six, a 45 ACP M1911-A1, a 9mm FEG Browning HP SA/DA clone, or an Astra Terminator 44 Rem Mag snubnose.

While I would like something with a bit more power, for general carry the KelTec P3AT is really conveinent in a front pocket.

Oh, PS the newere KelTec P3-AT's don't need the fluff & buff as the factory is doing some of that.  The new one I purchases has feed a variety of .380 ammo with no misfeeds.  I was cautioned by the gunshop owner I purchased my P3AT from to make sure I "lube" the rails.  I did that with a nice moly lube and it has worked flawlessly since I purchased it.  I relube every time I clean the pistol.  Another thing I strongly recommend is to put a dab of "white" sight paint on the front sight as that is about the only way I can see the frong sight.

For concealed carry, I vote for the KelTec, but either will serve you well.