looking to get into bp shooting any cartridge selection help??

[Kurt L]

Hi.
I am looking to get into bp cartridge shooting this summer and I
would like some input from you folks that already shoot bp cartridges.
I will be shooting with 2 boys around the age 14 and maybe one 9 year old.
We will be shooting at a local gun range and I would like to also maybe use it for close range woods deer hunting.

I am looking to get a barrel for T/C encore this summer and would like to load pyrodex or 777.

What barrel would you recommend?

#1 45-70

#2 460s&w I could also load 45 colt

#3 500s&w

I was thinking #2 as I could shoot 460bp loads and the kids
could shoot 45 colt bp loads.
I have never loaded bp,pyrodex or 777 in cartridges before and would like some
input on the barrel/cartridge to pick.I have never shot a 45-70 but I think it may be a little to much for kids,but like I said I have never shot one yet.also loaded with bp it should not be stought as a full smokeless powder load but thats why I am asking you bp guys for some input.
thanks kurt

[John Traveler]

My vote goes to the .45-70 for several reasons:

1.  It is the classic BP service rifle cartridge.
2.  You can load it down using lighter bullets for less recoil for the younger shooters.
3.  Cases and bullets readily available.
4.  Basic reloading tools allows "primitive" reloading at the bench, in the field, or at camp.
5.  full power loads are serious medicine for deer sized game.

I would avise against using .45 Colt BP in a longer chamber to avoid extraction/chambering difficulties.  BP and it's substitutes are notorious for chamber fouling.  Either get a .45 Colt barrel, or forget about interchangeable BP cartridges in the same shooting session.

[Lead pot]

Hi Kurt.

The TC Encore is a fairly light rifle for a 9 or 14 year old to shoot in a .45-70 the recoil will belt them pretty bad and it wont be to many shots and they will shy away from it.

A .38-55 would be the largest I would go for the young ones.
I'm not familiar with the 460 S&W or the 500 S&W loaded with black so I cant say if they would be enough for Deer but I would think inside a 100 yard shot would work.
As far as the black subs I don't use them so I wont comment on them.
Just make sure when you load black powder that the case is full of blk powder especially if you use a over the powder wad.

Some one else will have to fill you in on the subs.

LP.

[buckskin billy]

i agree with lead pot. the 45-70 with black powder can have a heck of a kick to it.
 the 38-55 would be a good one for younger shooters. a friend of mine bought a h&r handi rifle in a 38-55 for his 100 pound wife to shoot and she has no trouble with it. and its murder on deer.
 i shoot a 45 colt loaded with 35 grains of real black powder with a 255 grain bullet cast from a lee mold out of a navy arms henry rifle. it is real accurate and can kill a deer out to a 100 yards i wouldn't push it no further though.
 i don't know nothing about pyrodex or triple 7. but i've heard pyrodex is more corrosive than real black powder, and on the triple 7 you don't compress the powder charge, maybe some one else has had more experiance on the subs than i have

[brennemanj83]

I have got a H&R Target Classic 38-55.I load it with black powder.I started out trying the subs but didnt get good results.Very inconsistent groups.I am now using Swiss FFg at the moment and getting very good results.I would recommend using the subs in a cartridge.As far as Pyrodex geos I found when I used it I spent more time cleaning my rifle than I do know using Swiss powder

My vote is on the 45-70.

Jon

[Kurt L]

Would a 444 marlin loaded with bp be a better choice and it is easy to get brass/bullets?

[Lead pot]

I load my 95 .444 Marlin with 64 grains of 2F Goex express with a 250 or 300 grain bullet, It's not for a 9 year old.
My Marlin bites me more than the .45-90 12 pound Sharps does.

LP

[Kurt L]

Thanks for all the input so far

How about this set up guys?
460s&w and load bp,pyrodex or 777 and I can still shoot 45 colt for the 9 year old
but just load the colt with smokeless as it was listed above that the shorter case and bp will leave a lot of junk in the chamber.
also the 460 and 45-70 can be fitted with a removable muzzle brake ,will these work with bp or will it tend to plug the port holes?anyone know?would a brake on the 45-70 with say 300 grain bullet be able to be shot by a 9 year old?

After reading all above I am thinking on 460 s&w just for the reason I could
load bp and shoot with the 14 year olds and I could use it for deer and also load 45 colt with unique or something and everyone can shoot it.

  BP and it's substitutes are notorious for chamber fouling.  Either get a .45 Colt barrel, or forget about interchangeable BP cartridges in the same shooting session.

[kevinsmith5]

I shoot a 45-70 H&R Buffalo Classic with BP and the 45-70 would be my choice. Recoil with 300 grain bullets is pretty mild.  western Bullet has 150 grain collar buttons that I load over 20 grains Pyrodex (with grits over top) for rabbit shooting.  Recoil doesn't exist with this load.

[sixgun_symphony]

 If you are set on a revolver, get a Colt Model P chambered in .44-40.  This chambering has more than enough lethal impact for deer.

 For that matter, consider getting a rifle chambered in .44-40 too. That round was first chambered in the 1873 Winchester rifle and it was first called the .44 Winchester Center Fire.

[longcaribiner]

The 45-70 can be loaded up and loaded down.  If you check an old Ideal cateloague, they included loading instuctions for very light gallery loads for 45-70's, and even for small game hunting.  Back in the day, some folks even loaded 457 round balls in their 45-70's.  I have a mold for a 210 grain 45-70 wad cutter style bullet that when loaded with some felt wads and seated all the way into the case, packs about as much kick as a 38 Spec. 

For the 44-40, when my daughter was 11, she loved to shoot (her pre boys and driving days)  We loaded up about 300 44-40's with lead bullets and some really slow burning rifle powder (4198 maybe?)    It had the kick of a 22 mag.   Very pleasant to shoot.  For plinking in fact, it was a little too enjoyable.  Needed to reload again too soon.   For a real learning experience, I have an old single shot rifle in 357.  I let my daughter load black powder loads with a lyman nut cracker tool for 38 Specials.  She was shooting great offhand groups out to 100 yards with it.  (Wiping between shots.)     

I would avoid Pyrodex.  It is more corrosive than black powder and just as hard to scrub out.  May as well use the real stuff.   

[zrifleman]

Best choice for newbie or anyone is 45-70. When you mention Pyroex and Triple 7, thats contadictory to saying you want to shoot BP. Thats not real BP! Most BPCR shooters avoid the BP substitutes like the swine flu. They don't work as well as BP. Yes---I'm a skeptic, I tried them all.

[Swampman]

Pyrodex & 777 work just fine.  They are neither more (or less) corrosive than blackpowder.

[longcaribiner]

That pyrodex is more corrosive is easy to test.  Mix  a 50 grain measure of pyrodex, 50 grains of real black and 50 grains of trip7 each with a cup of water and test the ph 2 hours later.  Pyrodex is quite a bit more corrosive.

[zrifleman]

Swampman---I spent a week trying to get Pyrodex to stop rusting the barrel on one of my Sharps. Triple 7 leaves hard fouling and is prone to erractic ignition. The general consensus on BPCR forums is that neither one performs as well as real BP. That goes for all the other BP substitutes manufactured to date.