Communion Wine

[Swampman]

Have any of you made wine for your church communion services?  How hard is it.

[pastorp]

Swampman, This dosen't really answer your question directly.

But we never use fermented wine just grape juice. I use Welches but you could homemake the juice. My neice makes her own but I've never watched the process.

[Swampman]

We need the real thing.  We are currently using some store bought Hebrew wine, but I'd prefer to make my own.

[pastorp]

Being a pastor myself I'm always interested in how others conduct their communion services. I've shared communion with fellow believers all across america and found a real variety of beliefs. Curious about how you do yours.

Do you use a common cup or individual servings?

What type of bread do you use?

Not trying to start a debate this is just a subject that interests me, If you are comfortable sharring.

[Swampman]

We use a common cup.  I make the bread using this recipe.

Unleavened Bread Recipe for the Lord’s Supper

1/2 Cup of Olive Oil
1/2 Cup of Water
2 Cups of Whole Wheat Flour - I use King Arthur Brand. Whatever you use, make sure it is whole wheat. You can tell if the flour is brown.
Preheat the oven to 350 F
Combine the olive oil, & water. Wisk it with a wisk or a fork until its near-frothy white. Alternatively, you can put it in a blender instead.
Loosely mix the flour to the blend. You don’t want to mix it too much or glutton chains will start to form. When making normal bread, this is desirable. But, since we’re making unleavened bread, it will make it too hard.
Make sure the dough is the same consistency of a drier batch of cookie dough.
Grease a cookie sheet well with a hard fat like Crisco, Smart Balance, or any other Trans Fat/Saturated Fat.
Roll the dough flat (as thin as pie crust). I find it helpful using a hand roller.
Once the dough is flat, it is necessary to make some incisions so that bubbles will not form in the baking process. I like to cut it into cracker-like squares. If you want to keep larger pieces, simply make a sizable incision every 6-12 inches.
Bake for about 10 minutes. Watch it constantly after 9 minutes to avoid burn. Browned (not just burnt) communion bread tastes bitter. Adjust the time for crispier or flimsier bread.

[Oldtimer]

Swamp, winemaking is not a difficult project, the key being clean equipment.  There are a number of online sources for equipment, yeast, and even the necessary syrups for different types of wine.  You can, of course, press your own juice, but it requires a press, which you can either build yourself or buy.  I have made wine in a glass five gallon carboy, the type of glass bottle that bottled water comes in.  Then you need  a rubber stopper and an air lock, which you can rig up with some tubing and water, or buy, as it doesn't not cost much.  In the local winery, we use lots of metabisulfate to sterilize the equipment, and it is not very expensive, either.  After the fermentation is complete, it is time to bottle it.  Since you won't be selling it, reusing wine bottles works just fine, and so too with either plastic corks or screw tops.  Forget real cork, you will lose about one bottle in seven using it.  Also, if you don't have any empty wine bottles laying around, it is really easy and fun to take full ones and make empties out of them.

As for bread, you can also use a recipe like the one you posted, and cook it on the stovetop with a dry cast iron pan.  I just had some of the young kids do that.  It makes an Indian bread called roti.  It takes just a couple of minutes to make one round.  This is the type of bread that Jesus multiplied in the two miracles.  What really amazes me is that done right, it will puff up and make a pocket.  Here is the url for a really nice Indian woman fixing rotis.  It is fun just to watch how she does it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD4o_Lmy6bU&feature=related

[pills]

seems to me that "Wine" being fermented would make it prohibited for passover type events.

[Swampman]

There is no such thing as unfermented wine.  The Bible clearly states it made them drunk.

[pills]

@ the passover feast? Don't want to get into an argument here. Never read of that. Would you mind citing scripture?

[Swampman]

http://www.geocities.com/papaweiss1/wine.htm

All Biblical wine, is wine.  Noah got drunk after the flood.  On the Day of Pentecost they were thought to be drunken....etc.

Wine like the blood of Jesus doesn't corrupt.  Garpe juice on the other hand does.

I'm not actually interested in Passover, because I'm a Christian.  Passover is a Jewish observance.

This wine is for communion.

[pills]

I too am a follower of Christ. "Communion" was instituted @ the last supper where Christ himself was observing passover.

I must respectfully disagree with the statement that all biblical wine is wine. Yes Noah got drunk after the flood but that is irrelevant to this discussion as is the comment about the Upper room experience on the Day of Pentecost. Peter said these are not drunk as you suppose...

How would grape juice corrupt but "wine" not?

It is not hard to find someone on the internet who has a web page that supports either belief.

http://www.yrm.org/wine_or_grape_juice.htm

Thank you for a continued intellectual discussion.

[Swampman]

Wine last indefinitely and is a type of the blood of Jesus Christ, who is a type of the Passover lamb.

Grape juice spoils rather quickly and has no Biblical type, nor is it ever mentioned in the Bible as far as I know.

[squirrellluck]

Wine corrupts. It is referred to in the Bible. I am no scolar so someone may be able to  be more specific. When Jesus was offered gall at the cross. May not have spelled it right but that is corrupted wine. Or as we call it vinegar. Wine will turn to vinegar. I lost a whole batch to this because of bad seals

[Swampman]

At any rate, we use wine as Jesus did.  Drinking in moderation is no sin.

I'd just rather not use wine made by strangers.

[rquack]

Making wine requires three basic ingredients: Grape juice, yeast and sugar. Get yourself a used wooden whiskey barrel with a charred interior, approx 53 gallon capacity. Add about 2lbs. sugar per gallon of fruit juice. Add yeast. After a couple of days you'll notice the bubbling and initial phase of fermentation beginning and this will continue for about 2-3 weeks. As this happens you will need to keep "topping up" the barrel with juice; this allows the "junk" to "boil" out of the barrel. After the initial fermentation period you will need to install an "air lock" on the barrel. This keeps the the gasses generated by the wine coming out but no air going in; oxygen will diminish the flavor of the wine. After six months or so the secondary fermentation will subside: but keep the air lock in place. Let the wine age for another 4-24 months. Then get ready for some really good wine. Caution: temperature must remain stable at 45-55 degrees. Fast changes in temp will cause deterioration of the wine. Storing in a large container minimizes the temp swings. Be careful: there are no preservatives in this wine and it must be kept cold to prevent it from starting to "work" again, this will cause it to blow a cork out of a bottle. You may find a benefit to adding a clarifying agent to remove the cloudy appearance; this generally does not impair the flavor. The chemicals used to "stop" the fermentation process [in my opinion] detract from the flavor of the wine; so keep it cold and don't use it. You will note a volume of yeast sludge on the bottom of the barrel, avoid getting this into your bottles when siphoning wine from the barrel. Good luck and good drinking [in moderation]. Also Cherry wine is really good and the juice can be diluted about 20% without impairing the taste of the final product; but only grape wine may be used for communion. You may vary the amount of sugar in your wines as you progress. More + sweeter and nominally stronger, Less = dryer wine. Wines tend to get smoother and dryer as they age; but they also deteriorate after they hit their prime, so drink 'em and make more.