Is a 243, 257, 25-06, 260 too much for shooting P-dogs

[curtism1234]

I'd like to get into varmint hunting with a rifle (currently with a shotgun).
Primarily, I'm looking for something to kill coyotes with (maybe groundhogs but they are few and far between here) and don't care about pelts.

My issue though is that I'm likely going on a prarie dog hunt. I live in the midwest so this is likely only something I'll do a couple times in my life.
I have a 17hmr but these guys like shooting past it's effective range.
The new rifle would be my primary gun for that shoot.
Ammunition cost and overheating are my concerns.


A couple points
1. I don't buy a lot of guns - never have. Nor do I like selling my guns for sentimental reasons.
2. I also don't shoot alot at the range.
3. As a deer rifle, I only have a 7mag. It might be nice to have something to back that up with especially if I'm only hunting does (bucks can go up beyond 300 pounds here so I'd like the extra power)
4. I don't know if I can justify buying a 223 or 22-250 for such limited specific use (albeit a more logical choice for p-dogs).
 
Thoughts?

[Graybeard]

Yes they really are all "a bit too much" for use in a prairie dog town. The one thing PD shooting is about is volume shooting and all those have a lot of recoil for the volume of shooting mostly associated with PD shooting. Do you really want to shoot any of them 150-300 times a day?

They can work and be safe in SOME but NOT ALL locations you'll be shooting them also. It is best to be 100% certain that when your bullet hits something where it be the ground or a PD that it will explode and not ricchochet.

I like rounds like my .17 Fireball, the .223 or .22-250 for them personally as you can shoot all you want and not be concerned with recoil and all have high velocity highly fragible bullets that are not going anywhere once they make impact.

[mattmillerrx]

Any will work.  The .243 has varmint loads with lighter bullets and deer loads with the heavier bullets.  The 25-06 would be my pick if you want to use it for deer as well but any will do the job.  And since you don't want pelts your 7mm mag would work.

Take two rifles so you can let one cool down.

[helotaxi]

If you're going to buy a new rifle for varminting alone, a .223 with a heavy, fluted barrel would be my choice.  It's not the barrel burner that a 22-250 is, recoil is about nil and there is bulk ammo out there when you can find it.  Since it is a primary varmint caliber, the selection of .224 cal varmint bullets is immense.  Same with the selection of factory loads with varmint bullets in .223.

There are .243 varmint bullets out there, I've got at least 8 different examples sitting on the shelf above my reloading bench, but they're not common in factory loads and the ones that you do find are not inexpensive.  Also considering that the average .243 round has double the powder charge of the average .223 round, barrel heating is a much more serious issue.  I have a light barreled .243 and recoil off the bench isn't that noticeable, but because of barrel heating issues it isn't the rifle I'd take to dogtown as a primary.  I'd bring it along with 10 rounds or so just for the splat factor, but the .223 would be the primary.

[Ladobe]

Given:
1. To kill coyotes and groundhogs (and you don't care about pelts).
2. Your going on what you think will be a once or twice in a lifetime hunt for PD's.
3. You'd like to have a backup for deer hunting that is lighter than your 7MAG.

Concerns:
4. Ammo cost for the PD hunt.
5. Barrel overheating at the PD hunt.
6. You don't want to buy a lot of firearms.
7. You don't shoot much at the range.
8. Is a PD specific rifle justified for only one or two hunts?

Assumed:
9. Since ammo cost is a concern you probably do not reload.

Since you asked for opinions, easy answer to me based on the info is it doesn't sound like you want or need to buy a predator/varmint specific firearm, but rather a rifle that can be used for them but is mainly for deer hunting.

While a lot of calibers would do these dual purpose jobs well enough (including the 25-06), I'd suggest the 243 Winchester as a good compromise.   Will work well for coyotes, groundhogs, PD's and deer at ranges that may surprise you; the ammo is "normally" readily available almost anywhere and not overly expensive if you don't reload (for only one PD shoot that really shouldn't be a big factor anyway); recoil is not excessive, it's not a barrel burner, etc.   Besides, its easy enough to take your 17HMR or whatever else you have along to switch off on the closer shots with, and to set your own shooting pace so barrel heating does not have to be an issue.   

YMMV

[securitysix]

Any of the cartridges you mentioned will work for prairie dogs.  I've heard of people shooting them with .300 Winchester Magnums.  As someone else pointed out, the volume of shooting done while going after prairie dogs is the major concern.  If you can handle several hundred rounds from the bench with the aforementioned cartridges, then by all means, go ahead with it.  Of the ones you mentioned, I've only shot the .243 Winchester.  It kicks significantly less than the .308 Winchester.  I can handle, at most, 80 rounds of .308 Winchester from the bench in a day's worth of shooting (paper targets, not p-dogs).  I could handle quite a bit more from the .243 Winchester. 

I don't know about the .25 calibers or the .260 you mentioned, as I've never shot any of them.

I'm going to suggest something off the wall here:

How about a T/C Contender or Encore rifle?  You can set either up for varminting with barrels in .22 Hornet, .222, .223, .221 Fireball, and .218 Bee, to name a few.  The Encore can also handle .22-250, .220 Swift, .225 Winchester, and .22 Savage Hi-Power.  For deer, either can handle 6.8 SPC, 7-30 Waters, .30-30 Winchester, and quite a few other cartridges.  The Encore can also handle all of the calibers you mentioned, as well as 7mm Mag and a whole host of other calibers suitable for game both larger and smaller than deer.

A new barrel for a T/C Contender or Encore is going to cost less than all but the most inexpensive of bolt-action rifles.  If you're going to buy another gun, why not make it as versatile as possible?

[1sourdough]

 I agree, most you mentioned are a bit much, but would work. Time of year is an important factor. Let's say you went to a prime spot in late May/ early June. In that case your 17 HMR may be just the ticket. Even at other times I think it would be O.K. at a good location. I'd try to get quality optics that top out at 14 pwr or a little more. I have 2 days scheduled in SD in early June & can't wait.

[curtism1234]

Ladobe,
Very good post.

Your assumption would be correct in that I'm NOT a reloader.
Having said that, you are right in that the 243 varmint rounds are the next cheapest to the 223 and 22-250.

What I need to do is price the ammunition first. The price difference in ammo alone for 2 trips (1000 rounds total) may be enough to buy a Savage/Stevens 223/22-250 (the gun and probably a trigger). Just depends I guess.


I wouldn't be intereted in an Encore. Perhaps a Handi-rifle though.
Of course when the Handi is the same price as a Savage bolt action you might as well get the repeater.

[iiranger]

These cool, rational, reasoning old gray heads have spoken some fine wisdom. What they didn't tell you is that p'doggin is additive. ADDICITIVE! You go once and you will be HOOKED! So you want to be thinking about a good gunsmith to do rebarrelling... If you want a back up for your deer rifle, 243 is about as popular as they come. If you want a dedicated rifle to "wet your toe with" get a .223 and fine some reloads. Black Hills Ultramax... Then try it and see if you don't go back, again, and again, and again...

I picked up a Mini Mark X in .223 when they came out. No regrets except I don't live in p'dog land. luck.

[Ladobe]

curtism1234,

Main flaw with your last post is that you're letting projected ammo cost for a possible PD trip or two steer you away from your stated main useage for the new rifle - a light backup for deer hunting.    You think you'll only do PD's once or twice in your lifetime, but you know you'll probably do deer every year during it IOW.   While it may be legal in some states, the 223 is not a good deer cartridge, but a 243 is.

Now that iiranger let the cat out of the bag... it is very true that most who try PD/GS hunting do fall hard in love with it - way more so than ground hog hunters probably because of the volume shooting.   I know I did about 55 years ago, and I've always lived close to the action.   I grew tired of big game hunting after about 35 years, but never wanted to stop doing P&V or ADC.   If my health allowed I'd be doing it full time now - daily.    However, since you don't like to do range time (target practice) you may also not care about volume shooting or the similar challenges to target shooting that PD hunting provides.

If you do decide to "go for it" and think there is a chance you'll get hooked on it, make the effort to do it regularly even if far away and not just once or twice... do yourself a BIG favor and buy a better quality flat shooting small to medium caliber firearm with the best glass on it that you can afford.   You have to aim small to hit small, and that takes good glass when the ranges get long and the targets small.   Trust me, when you get to where you can connect on a ping pong ball sized head near 100% at 100 yards you'll want to do the same at 200, then 300 and so on right out to the maximum range the firearm and ammo is capable of.   Most PD/GS hunters regularly shoot out to several hundred yards, quite a few over 1000, then there's that rare breed that does dogs at a mile and a half plus.   Which equipment you buy will depend on how small/how far you want to shoot.

BTW, when I hosted Digger Wars (an annual 10 day digger shoot I put on for friends from other states) I normally took 15-18 firearms along that were built specifically for long range P&V hunting.   So beware...  having the tools to kill lots of sage rats in any situation can be very expensive.   LOL   

HTH

[shotgun31]

I hunt prairie dogs with a 6.5-06, .223 and a 17Ackley Hornet.  When hunting coyotes the 6.5-06 gets used most (I don't save hides) and I carry a shotgun.  Don't discount that .17HMR that you have for prairie dogs.  It has reasonable utility out to 150 yards.  Ignore the guys that shoot "way out there".

If I understand your hunting situation, it's deer each year, coyotes now and then, and prairie dogs when the trip presents itself.  If I were in your situation I'd take a look at the .260 Remington.  You have a nice 17 cal and a shotgun.   
Shotgun

[454Puma]

Though you said maybe once or twice you'll hunt Pdogs! O.K? You might get hook on it as it's fun. Pdog are bigger then our ground squirels we have here in ID. But I use my '06 and 30-30 and 357 Mag marlin. Now I reload and I load them with light loads and cast bullets.  True I don't shoot hundreds of rounds like the do at Pdogs but I do shoot 30-60 rounds! It's all in how much fun you want to have! PS I do wack alot more of them with a .22LR!