Author Topic: 2.9 parrott cannon pellet style mold (Read 1633 times)

mike t · « **on:** May 06, 2009, 03:44:27 PM »

Anyone know where I can purchase or have made a "pellet style" mold to cast lead shells for a parrott repro cannon? The tube is south bend the liner is PBO. I understand the correct diameter is 37 thousanths less that the 2.9 bore diameter.

cannonmn · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2009, 04:04:08 PM »

They are always made to order, no one stocks them. Have you checked the pinned threads at the top of the board for sources? That's what you want to do first, then if nothing there works...

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2009, 05:07:01 PM »

Are you sure you want a mould to cast lead? Sure you don't want Zinc or perhaps even aluminum?

As Cannonmn says check with our sponsors they can probably make what you want. You find them listed in the GBO Sponsors sticky at the top of the board.

RocklockI · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2009, 05:44:28 PM »

mike t welcome ! so would the 'pellet' be quite a bit lighter than a regular type shaped projo ?

cannonmn · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2009, 06:42:49 PM »

Quote

Are you sure you want a mould to cast lead?

I will answer for him even though 'tis not usualy polite, since I'm here now and he's not. Yes, he's after the right kind of mold, for lead casting, if he's shooting a muzzle-loading rifle. These "air rifle pellet" molds, or as we call 'em around here, Trash Can Projectiles, work very well as long as the front is thick enough so it does not blow through. If that happens, you can have hours of "fun" getting it out until you invent a special extractor for "the next time." The system is quite forgiving, dimensionally since the projectile expands, it is essentially a large Civil War Minie Ball.

These projectiles expand reliably, take the rifling very well, and can be extremely accurate and consistent.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2009, 07:01:11 PM »

Zinc and aluminum will expand, are lighter and work at lower pressures and like lead if cast in a properly designed mould will not blow through. Zinc and aluminum being lighter will have less recoil which will be easier on the equipment.

cannonmn · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:56:10 AM »

Quote

Zinc and aluminum will expand, are lighter and work at lower pressures and like lead if cast in a properly designed mould will not blow through. Zinc and aluminum being lighter will have less recoil which will be easier on the equipment.

I could not possibly argue with the correctness of DD's statments. I would however point out that I have not yet run into anyone who uses anything other than lead for making sizeable (say 3-inch and larger) "Minie Ball" type expanding projectiles. If you know of someone who does, please let me know.

If you are going to cast your projectiles, lead has the great advantage of being very forgiving, meaning easy to cast. Zinc can be tricky if you don't want to invest a lot of time in perfecting your process. No one is saying you need to make an excessively heavy projectile out of lead, since the base is hollow and the cavity can be most of the length of the projectile. My 3" diameter trash can projectiles made of soft lead weigh about 5 to 5.5 pounds, which is not at all excessive weight for a 3" bore. A friend of mine who shoots an original 14 pounder James rifle uses similar projectiles that weigh under 10 pounds.

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2009, 03:12:51 PM »

I found this. It is a mould that built 23 years ago. The projectile weighed just under 7 pounds when lead cast. It is 2.75 diameter. You can open it up to fit your dimensions.

Click on the thumbnail and you can get a full size drawing. Broke my carriage first shot.

cannonmn · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2009, 04:40:51 PM »

Thanks for that DD. My molds have a much larger core, both larger in diameter and taller, so volume-wise, my projectiles are mostly air. Maybe I can find a pic of it, I posted it on the board like a year ago...

Victor3 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2009, 03:41:45 AM »

Quote from: cannonmn on May 07, 2009, 03:56:10 AM

I could not possibly argue with the correctness of DD's statments. I would however point out that I have not yet run into anyone who uses anything other than lead for making sizeable (say 3-inch and larger) "Minie Ball" type expanding projectiles. If you know of someone who does, please let me know.

Lead, zinc, iron, steel and copper based materials are all safe for expanding skirt projectiles due to lubricity inherent in the material.

I have serious concerns about aluminum though; it tends to adhere to steel under pressure. Using it for a minie ball type slug could be a recipe for a bore plug.

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2009, 06:07:26 AM »

Victor,

Now that you mention it, I don't remember seeing any hollow based aluminum slugs. Solid both turned and cast yes, but not hollow.

Victor3 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2009, 03:27:27 AM »

Quote from: Double D on May 08, 2009, 06:07:26 AM

Victor,

Now that you mention it, I don't remember seeing any hollow based aluminum slugs. Solid both turned and cast yes, but not hollow.

DD,

Not that an expanding aluminum slug won't work at all; it might. It's just that in my experience with various applications, bare aluminum tends to gall to steel. The softer it is, the worse it gets.

I've machined soft, cast aluminum that acted like frozen bubble gum. Impossible to cut without it sticking to the tool unless flood coolant was used. It would be okay for a cannon ball with windage, but unsafe (IMO) for a slug that will be forced under heat & pressure into rifling grooves, with a lot of friction as it goes down the bore.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2009, 04:19:12 AM »

Can't say I have eve machined cast aluminum, but have whacked on extruded...my bubble gum wasn't frozen, but it was bubble gum none the less..

cannonmn · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2009, 04:28:40 AM »

Quote

I've machined soft, cast aluminum that acted like frozen bubble gum. Impossible to cut without it sticking to the tool unless flood coolant was used.

The way it was explained to me, cast aluminum lacks some kind of additives that are put into aluminum round stock (and other stock shapes) to make sure it is machinable, since about 99% of the round stock alumiinum that's manufactured is destined for machining.

CrufflerSteve · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2009, 11:50:37 AM »

I have a mould designed to cast projectiles for a 2.25" Confederate Mountain Rifle. I can provide pictures & measurements so you could adapt it. It has a variety of inserts so it can cast lead Minie balls of varying skirt thickness. It even has some inserts which can accept bolts. Zinc is then poured in and a lead or brass sabot can be attached for a Read projectile.

Steve (who really does want to get back into live fire)

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »

Steve,

You have been conspiciously absent lately...welcome back.

Can you post copies of you drawings/

while we are on the subject, does any one have a drawing of an original parrot shell?

CrufflerSteve · « **Reply #16 on:** May 10, 2009, 07:17:08 AM »

Quote from: Double D on May 09, 2009, 12:29:34 PM

Steve,

You have been conspiciously absent lately...welcome back.

Can you post copies of you drawings/

while we are on the subject, does any one have a drawing of an original parrot shell?

I have no drawings since I bought it from somebody who did the design for his own cannon. I'll be starting a picture heavy thread with measurements of the mould, it's inserts and projectiles.

Steve

mike t · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:35:43 AM »

Thanks for all the responses. Been away from the computer for a while. I do shoot a mountain rifle and the lead pellet style mold shoots very well. I am hoping to find someone who has made or had someone else make a similar mold for the 2.9 bore---needs to cast 2.85 in lead shell. The trash can style or pellet style are the only type I have seen the N-SSA fellows use during competition. Well some are using CNC generated shells that are just to expensive to plink with for me.

Randell · « **Reply #18 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:39:26 AM »

Do these type of trash can pellets work in smooth bore?
1.50 dia
Who can make a mold for lead pellet?

Thanks

mike t · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:51:52 AM »

I would not think so, much like throwing a football with no spin, nothing to stabilize the nose foreward design.

GGaskill · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2009, 10:12:35 AM »

Do these type of trash can pellets work in smooth bore?

They should be better than round balls. The operating principle is the same as the Forster shotgun slug. Heavy part forward with an aerodynamic drag section to the rear. Not as good as a spinning projectile but better than a round ball.

Victor3 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 22, 2009, 12:22:14 AM »

I recently made this 12 ga pellet style mould...

I'm working on some similar 30mm (1.18") ones.

With the way the economy's going, you might be able to find a local job shop to make a mould for not too much. Some are taking on any kind of work they find just to keep the doors open.

I expect you'd still have to pay a few hundred bucks for a 'one-off' though...

subdjoe · « **Reply #22 on:** May 22, 2009, 04:25:09 AM »

Quote from: Victor3 on May 22, 2009, 12:22:14 AM

I recently made this 12 ga pellet style mould...

I'm working on some similar 30mm (1.18") ones.

With the way the economy's going, you might be able to find a local job shop to make a mould for not too much. Some are taking on any kind of work they find just to keep the doors open.

I expect you'd still have to pay a few hundred bucks for a 'one-off' though...

So, what would you charge to make one 2.93" dia., 7 inches overall, adn the plug running about 2/3 of the way up?

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** May 22, 2009, 06:02:55 AM »

Time to take this to PM's and email.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2009, 02:14:45 AM »

Quote from: Victor3 on May 22, 2009, 12:22:14 AM

...
With the way the economy's going, you might be able to find a local job shop to make a mould for not too much. Some are taking on any kind of work they find just to keep the doors open.
...

When I made my first mortar (1974-75) it was during a recession and I got it chrome plated for $10. Also had some cusom engine parts machining (1964 MGB) done that wouldn't have been touched were it not for the economy.