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Author Topic: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?  (Read 701 times)

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Offline briannmilewis

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How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« on: June 08, 2009, 03:15:11 PM »
I have a great H&R 22 Hornet that shoots factory Winchester 46gr Hollow Points better than any handload I have made to date. How can I determine what powder they use, so I can duplicate it in a hand load? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Offline chipmunk

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 04:21:50 PM »
My only guess would be to call and ask.  Not sure if they'll tell you though. 

Hopefully someone will have some better info.  I have wondered this same thing before.
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Offline dorothy daily

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 04:38:23 PM »
they will not tell you and you cannot buy what they use.
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Offline tfranklin7

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 04:46:44 PM »
Have you tried Hodgdon LIL'GUN ,I don't think you will find a better powder for the 22 Hornet  ;). TF
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2009, 05:46:08 PM »
I'll second the use of LilGun.  The more I use it the better I like it.  It has about replaced H-110 and W 296 for my use.  I think it is made for 22 Hornet, 357 mag, and I use alot in my 45 Colts.  Gonna try it in my 44 mags and 454 Casull's this summer.  It also runs thru my Lyman DPS 1200 powder measure with out it binding up like it does with H-110.  The factories use a powder made to their specifications, they know what speed they want with a certain weight bullet and use a powder to meet that need.  Most powders used by the factories aren't available to us.  DP
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2009, 06:02:02 PM »
More than one member here has tried to duplicate the WWB 45gr JHP .223 loads, pretty much unsuccessfully, you can at least buy the Hornet bullets tho! One way I thought of duplicating a factory load is if you have chrono'd the factory load and know what it does in a given barrel length.

1. Pull a bullet, dump the powder and weigh it.

2. Do a visual comparison to powders you have, ball, extruded, ect.

3. Compare published data for the look alike powders, look for similar velocities.

4. Work up your own load which is likely what you should have done to begin with since they may be using proprietary/canister powders that we can't get!!  ::) ;D

Good luck!  ;)

Tim
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Offline myarmor

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 06:06:46 PM »
Absolutely.... Hornady Light Mag any one? ::)
Man I wish we could get our hands on some of this powder.






-Aaron
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 07:41:39 PM »
The Hodgdon manual gives what I have been told are the factory loadings for cartridges using their powders.  With these loading there is no starting load or maximum loads.

For the .22 Hornet they list IMR powders. 
Here is the listing.  Case: Remington, Primer: Remington 6 1/2,  Bullet: 45 gr HDY SP, Dia: .224  Col: 1.720".

IMR 4198,  10.5 gr Compressed, Vel 2010,  20,100 CUP.     
IMR 4227,  11.5 gr Compressed, Vel 2515,  38,900 CUP.   
IMR 4759,    8.0 gr Compressed, Vel 2000,  24,700 CUP.

Good Luck,  Rog
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Offline bigvarmnt

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2009, 05:57:49 PM »
I bought a couple hundred of the 46 gr. Win H.P.s from Cabelas. Try Lil gun or 4227 or your preference. Try some different primers also. That has made a diff. for me at times. Try for the same velocity and Hope! The hole is a tad bigger in the ones I bought verses factory Wins. I got some 30 gr Varmint Grenades and got one hole groups in one of my Ruger Hornets. The other didn't seem to like them, at least in the same load. Haven't had time to test much as you guys got me into 44 mag then 223 and haven't had time to mess with it all. I think I need to retire and still wouldn't have enough time. THANKS!!!
I don't know how Tim does it. (TIME MANAGEMENT)
What is the twist and length of your barrel? I plan, hope to get one soon.
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Offline JerryKo

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 03:48:07 AM »
I'd try running it over a chrony and then try matching the velocity with lilgun or h110.  Might work.  I know other things such as pressure come into play but you could give it a try.  Probably come to find its shooting the factory slower than your handloads.  Goodluck

Jerry
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Offline JerryKo

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 03:50:23 AM »
Opps...did see your post Tim.  I jumped the gun from my phone.  Good info as always....

Jerry
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Offline GPR125

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 05:30:00 PM »
As mentioned previously, quite often commercial ammo makers use propellents that are not available to the reloading public.  Either a custom blend or powders not for sale.   Even if they could, liability concerns would probably prohibit them providing any specifics.  Besides, unless you have a chronograph, you are working with imaginary figures anyway.   Then there is that number one rule of reloading:  Survival is NOT mandatory!

What you might work up in your chamber might not work as well in another. 
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Offline briannmilewis

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Re: How do I find out what powder the factory uses in their loads?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 12:22:19 PM »
Wow! Thanks for all your wonderful and thoughtful advice. I actually went to the range today after putting some more loads together with L'il Gun, and I got close to the Win factory accuracy with 13gr or Full Case of L'il Gun, Sierra 45gr SP, Winchester and CCI small pistol primers, and 1.75" OAL. I am now convinced that 45gr should be at the bottom of the bullet weight for my rifle, as HP and SP in 40gr just are not there by a large margin compared to the 45gr SP. The H&R has a 1:12 twist rate, but I have not ventured near the 50gr bullets yet, which the more I read about heavier bullets, I probably should have started at 50gr as a middle weight, and worked down and up from there. Oh well, reloading and centerfire is a new thing for me (55) and my sons (14 & 15), so I have a lot to learn yet. I guess I wanted to convince myself that under 45gr just had to work, I know I haven't got to Hornady V-Max yet, but I will do that once I have settled on a heavier load. Oh, by the way, I am getting less stretching using Prvi cases, then Winchester and the biggest stretchers are the Remington cases. Also, I have been reading a lot about a rechamber to a Hornet K and will do that as soon as possible. Thanks you all, and I did not realize that powders used in factory loads were like KFCs secret herbs and spices or the Coke formula! 
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