Did I buy the wrong .223 bullets?

[ndindy]

So I sent my 45-70 in and just got back my .223 with new stock.  Very pretty and I was very excited.  I went to the range and like an idiot I forgot my handloads, but got lucky and found a box of 55gr FMJ American  (red box, yellow letters) or other under my seat, saved the day really with old PD training rounds.  Scoped in and got a couple 1/2 MOA groups at 110 yards, averaged about 1 MOA.  VERY pleased.

So now I've been back out twice with my handloads and I'm getting roughly 3moa at best, same range, and bagged so nice and solid.  I tried out of a vice as well and didn't group any better.   I let my friend shoot it as well, same results.  I'm shooting 50gr remingtion corelokt HP's.  I'd have to grab my load data to see the velocity, but I know I loaded right in the middle of the data sheet.

The grouping is 'usable' but not pretty.  I plan on using this for target and coyote hunting.  I plan on trying with 2 other loads and hit both sides of the scale, but I'm wondering if this is too light a bullet for the 1 in 9.  I wouldn't think that just a 5gr difference alone would give the deviation I'm seeing.

Assuming pushing them faster or slower doesn't improve my grouping, any recommendations on bullet choice? 

[quickdtoo]

Welcome! Picking a random load expecting it to perform well isn't the best way to find an accurate load, you may get lucky, but don't count on it.  I work up loads from start load data looking for the best accuracy, usually just a ½gr change can go from poor to excellent groups, sometimes all loads will shoot acceptable, but there will still be a sweet spot, just depends on the load and bullet choice, the 1:9" should shoot 50gr just fine. Read the Handi Basics 101, you could also have oil/solvent on the latch will will destroy any accuracy.

You'll have to post a want to trade in the Reloading Equipment and Supplies Classified forum, buying/selling/trading isn't allowed in discussion forums. 

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Did I buy the wrong .223 bullets?

Also...hopefully you bought .224" bullets, there are .223" bullets available for the old Hornets, they wouldn't likely shoot well in a .223 Remington no matter what load you use.

Tim

[Graybeard]

If they are 50 grain core locts they will be .224" not .223".

As Tim said just picking a load at random isn't a high percentage way of finding an accurate load. Some times ya luck up and more so if you have a vast body of experience with the round and have favorites that have worked for you in several other barrels which I do for the .223 so I often start with a proven load from previous rifles. Often I'll luck up and it will be under MOA and do in a pinch but seldom will it be the BEST load for another rifle. It happens but rarely.

Another thing I've found is that starting loads and even middle of the road loads are seldom the most accurate. It does happen but again rarely. There are so many variables such as seating depth and even those half grain powder increases that can go from lousy to super accurate so quickly it will make you shake your head.

Finding the BEST load for any given barrel is a long drawn out job most times. That it shot one load accurately tells you the barrel is gonna be a good one now you just need to find what it wants to be fed.

[chipmunk]

All of the above info is good!

Only thing I can add is that in my experience, none of my guns like corelokts.  Might try something else.

Oh and don't worry about 50 grains being too light.  My 1 in 9 .223 LOVES 40 grain V-maxes.  1 hole groups at 100 yards.

[ndindy]

I wasn't expecting the first load to be the perfect load, but you have to start somewhere.  I've just never had this much difference between bullets/loads out of the same rifle before.  A little deviation I expect, but several inches is a bit of a surprise.  I'm also finding them fairly problematic to load.  I had a few rounds that didn't want to chamber.  As I was doing a couple different powder loads tonight I went back over the previous batch and found that probably 1 in 4 had a slight bulge right where the straight wall tapers in to the shoulder.

All the brass was once fired out my AR or through the H&R and FL sized before loading.  Everything I fired the day before I neck sized and loading tonight I ran into the same problem.  Prior to seating the brass is fine, afterwords not so good.  I reset the die several times, adjusted in and out a bit with the same results.  I even dug out all the die info to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong from memory.  Again, I've never had this issue before.  I've never used the corelockts before, usually load speer and hornady with some swift mixed in here and there.  I have loaded them for a .270 I just picked up without issue, but haven't actually tried them yet to see how they shoot out of it.  I'm hoping that one of the new loads salvages them a bit, but all in all I'm pretty unhappy with the fact I bought 300 of these things.  I was hoping I could blame bullet weight for twist rate and chalk it up as a learning step for the next go round.

[bilmac]

Are you crimping? This could be the cause of the bulge.

[burntmuch]

Thats what I was wondering. If the cases arent the same length. Crimping will bulge some of the longer ones ??

[Graybeard]

Sounds to me like they've grown too long and need to be trimmed back to specs

[ndindy]

I'm not crimping them, at least not in the seating die.  The first batch went through a lee crimp die, but last nights didn't.  I tried backing the die out an additional 1/4 to 1/2 turn and still got the bulges.  The brass is from 3 or 4 different brands and all that I've measured  have been well w/in normal specs.  It's happening to all of them.  The only thing I can think off is some of the bullets having a slightly larger base than the rest.  I'll have to mic everything and see if I can find some differences.  Only other thing I've got in common with every load is the dies, which are borrowed.  But the owner hasn't had problems with his loads.

I'm feeling a bit frustrated at the moment, been loading for roughly a decade and haven't had these kinds of problems before.

[gendoc]

i've experimented with my .223 heavy barrel with several
brands, weights, primers and charges....
my best outcome has been with nosler 55gr bt  and  60gr partition
with worked up charges and cci msrp.
i know its over-kill for kiyote but, it gets the job done perfectly.

and most of my charges are in .5 gr increments

it does take awhile but its fun getting there.

as for the brass, i start with new brass and reload only for one shooter, as with all my raffleguns!!!

[chipmunk]

After thinking about it, I had a similar problem once.   I had misplaced my chamfur/deburring tool so I tried to do without it.  The flat base bullets were catching on the case mouth which increased the force needed to seat and caused the necks to bulge a bit.  It was shaving a bit of the jacket off of the bullets too!   

Maybe this is your problem?  Sounds similar to me.

[ndindy]

Back to the range again today.  Kind of nice since I found one 10 minutes from town.  Used to be an hour each way.  Nice enough day considering I was shooting in the rain last time.  Warm enough with an average wind around 20mph.

So I took all my previous loads and brushed them with the size die to smooth the bulge.  The case deformity couldn't be doing anything good for accuracy.  They all chambered fine after that and  that alone brought the grouping in  to an average around 2.5 - 3 moa.  Much better but still a flier here and there.  Not pretty but pretty firmly in the usable category.  These loads were 21g of H4198 and crimped with the crimp die.

Next up was the cold load at 20g.  They grouped in around 2moa average, still a flier here and there.  So it like the slower load a bit better.

Then I switched to the hot load, 22g of pure fury    It liked faster better as well, averaging about 1.75 moa and a best 4 shot group here.  It would have been a best 5 shot, but I pulled the heck out of one of the rounds.



So the corelokts got a little redeamption today. They *can* group, but consistency still isn't as good as others.  Still not shooting as well as the FMJ's, but the hot load makes me happy enough to wait until they're gone before switching bullets. After that I'll start experimenting, try the noslers as suggested and see if it tightens up more.

Now I just have to figure out what the heck is going on at the press.  Good chance a better chamfur will fix the problem.  Now that it's been mentioned I've seen similar on straight wall cases when they didn't shape right. 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[chipmunk]

Hopefully that will fix them.  I like to absolutely chamfur the crap out of my cases.  I do the inside of the neck for 10-15 hand twists and then just touch up the outside enough to clean up the burs.   Really smooths out the whole seating process.  You should be able to get that gun sub-moa easily once you dial things in.  Like I mentioned, mine shoots one hole groups!   I am going to try some more light bullets as soon as I find primers.  I'll post when I try.  The group includes a CHEAP 34gr bullet from MidwayUSA that I really hope shoots well.  Only like $10 a 100!!!  Should make an excellent plinking/groundhog hunting round.

[ndindy]

No pics for these, but I picked up a box of 52 gr sierra matchkings and loaded them with 25g of H335.  They're boat-tails and loaded without the bulging problem the remingtons did. It turned in around  1moa+/- with 1 cloverleaf grouping shooting prone off a bipod.  Not sure how it would have done off the bench and bagged, but I'm not complaining.  I can't carry a 1 ton concrete bench with me anyways, not as young as I used to be.

Now I just have to empty 100 or so remington's out to reclaim the brass.

Side note: I showed the target to my brother who was rather disgusted that my 'good' grouping was a whole 2 inches above the bullseye.  Ranted for quite a while about how he could hit that bullseye with his 7mm   He's shot maybe twice in the last 12 years and knows approximately squat about ballistics and PBR.  Anyway, he went on to say that with his 7mm mag he could put 5 into the 1/2" circle at 100 yards.  Double rolley eyes here.  I guess I'm going to have to take him to the range so he can teach me how to shoot.