Author Topic: best non sabot bullet for hunting  (Read 1836 times)

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Offline nr8l

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best non sabot bullet for hunting
« on: July 04, 2009, 03:09:42 PM »
What non sabot bullet do you think is best for hunting big game (mule deer and elk) and why?

Offline toytruck

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 08:20:54 PM »
A pure lead conical in the 460-500gr range, cause they flat out shoot and knock a deer on his butt.  I don't like to track.. ;)
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Offline Lawful Larry

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2009, 02:02:05 AM »
I like a variety of conicals.  I think the Maxi-Hunter in just about any weight is great.  I also like the Hornaday Great Plains bullet.  I also use a R.E.A.L bullet for practise in my .54 cal hawkens carbine, but would not feel like I was missing something if I had to use one for hunting. 

If the price of sabots and jacketed bullets keep going up, I will go back to pouring my own lead bullets for hunting.  I do my own .58 cal. bullets for my Zouave '63 and can do so for the other guns. 

But I can see a time in the near future where we will not be able to do that either anymore.  Some bureaucratic bastard will work on taking that away from me and you.  ::)
Just another voice in the crowd!!!

 

Online Graybeard

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2009, 03:25:44 AM »
I use only two, the original Buffalo Bullet and the clone Hornady Great Plains Bullet. Never seen a need for any other.


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Offline j104wd

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2009, 04:17:46 AM »
I like the hornady great plains, cheaper to shoot than the sabots I tried. I use the 385gr 50cal good accuracy and they hit hard.

Offline Busta

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2009, 06:06:23 AM »
I personally do not like the Buffalo Bullet or the Hornady Great Plains, just not much bullet integrity between the hollow base and hollow point. They may work just fine on whitetails, but why pay more for a bullet that does less. If you are hunting truely big game such as elk, do yourself a big favor and get a solid lead conical without a hollow point and hollow base. You want a bullet that is not going to pancake and ring out on you if you hit some solid bone such as an elk shoulder. The shoulder knuckle of an elk probably has around 5 times the mass as a whitetails, you want a bullet that can plow through if need be. If you think you must use a hollow point/hollow base bullet, get the Hornady FPB.

Get a good conical, they are cheaper to buy than the Buffalo Bullet and Great Plains as well as a better bullet. Put a good fiber gasket wad between the powder and bullet if you wish.

From left to right: Hornady 350 gr FPB, White 430gr Super Slug, White 440 gr Power Punch, 460 gr No Excuses, White 480 gr Super Slug.


Fiber Gasket Wad.



I run several bullets through a test that I use as a guage of how well a bullet may or may not hold up on heavy bone.

Here is the all time worst bullet in my torture test, the Hornady Great Plains 385 gr.


The 348 gr PowerBelt comes in second to last, actually the 295 gr and below PowerBelt's actually blew up (fragmented) into several small pieces and were not recoverable as a recognizable shape, so they would have even scored lower than the Great Plains above.



Hornady 350 gr FPB after going through the torture test.



80 grains BH209, which would be about equivalent to 95 to 100 grains of Black Powder/Pyrodex/777 Pellets.




Here are some saboted bullets for comparison.

Hornady 300 gr XTP/MAG.


Hornady 300 gr SST.




Full bore White Conical with fiber gasket wad. Torture test below. 440 gr on the target, 430 gr in the torture test.




I have tested several bullets, both in the torture chamber and on game. All of the above bullets went through the very same test with equivalent 80 gr loads at 50 yards. The Hornady FPB has been proven on elk with up to 110 gr loads of BH209 and 777. I have personally killed a 5x5 Elk with the White 430 gr Super Slug pictured above, sitting on 80 grains of 777 FFFg (approx equivalent to 100 gr Black Powder). The Bull was shot at 46 yards through the large knuckle, he traveled 56 yards and expired. On the other hand I have witnessed a PowerBelt failure at 28 yards, with the same type shot. We call them in close (under 50 yards), they are pumped up and ready to fight when they come in, you want the best bullet you can use at that point. They usually don't turn and pose, giving you a perfect quartering away shot, don't use whimpy bullets. In Colorado we have to use conicals, and I would not be afraid to use any of them in that line-up above,with the exception of the 480 grain, and only because it is too long for their stupid laws.

A test I did just the other day with several conicals and the Hornady FPB. I shot the FPB with 80/90/100/110 grain loads, it really likes 80 gr BH209 which again is the approximate equivalent to 95-100 gr of black powder.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,176264.0.html
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Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2009, 08:51:05 AM »
For deer, I'll normally use the 245-295gr Powerbelt with 80gr Pyrodex RS. This year i made a homemade mold to cast an insert plug for the Powerbelt to stop over expansion/fragmention like Busta pictured above. So far 3 of us have deer tags and my brother has an elk tag.  We'll be using the 245gr powerbelt all the way up to the elk size 348gr powerbelt, all with 100gr pyrodex RS and the homemade inserts. Its going to be an interesting years thats for certain!

This is a 295gr ( actually 308grain with Insert) fired @ 100 yards with 100gr pyrodex rs.



My Favorite in my CVA Accura is the 245gr Powerbelt (256gr with insert) I shot this one at 20 yards into damp sand with 100gr pyrodex rs and it shows to be holding up very well.

16" of wet phone books produced a quarter size exit hole @ 50 yards,

You can see a couple Aerotips i tested out that day as well,


I also agree with busta on the great plains conicals. I shot a doe with one at 20 yards  into the shoulder and the bullet basically split right in half. It looked like a 50cent piece put on  a train track.

For starters, find what shoots best in your rifle and give it a try.

Online Graybeard

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2009, 09:58:31 AM »
I've never used a muzzle loader on anything but white tail deer. Doubt I ever will. On them I've seen nothing better than what I use.


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Offline nr8l

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2009, 04:36:26 PM »
Gentlemen, Thank you very much for the outstanding information.

BUSTA, do live here in Co? I'm new to this whole muzzleloader hunting thing. I drew a  61 muzzleloader elk tag this year and am uber excited about it. Maybe we can get together sometime.

Nr8l

Offline Busta

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Re: best non sabot bullet for hunting
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2009, 05:40:12 PM »
Gentlemen, Thank you very much for the outstanding information.

BUSTA, do live here in Co? I'm new to this whole muzzleloader hunting thing. I drew a  61 muzzleloader elk tag this year and am uber excited about it. Maybe we can get together sometime.

Nr8l

Nr8l,

No, I do not live in Colorado, I live in Michigan. Wish I lived in CO, maybe someday when I get my kids through college. I do love to hunt out there though.

The No Excuses conical is .970" long and legal for Colorado, but if you have a T/C, the Hornady FPB would probably be your best bet. T/C's shoot the FPB's well, but do not always shoot conicals as well due to the QLA. If you do use the Hornady FPB, you will need to either remove the tip, or cut it off flush with a razor blade. I would opt for cutting it off flush, because it will fly better and essentially work like it was designed. The reason you would need to cut the tip off is it would be too long for the bullet rules of CO, no longer than two times the diameter.
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