Author Topic: hardened WW  (Read 1287 times)

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Offline 38-44

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hardened WW
« on: July 07, 2009, 01:22:17 AM »
Veral
sizing hardened ww bullets softens the alloy
What happens shooting down the barrel?
Thanks

Offline gypsyman

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Re: hardened WW
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2009, 04:39:24 AM »
I know what happened when I hardened bullets before. I think I hardened them too much for what I was doing. I was shooting IHMSA, and a friend of mine and I got the wise idea of heat treating a batch. Made them too hard, and when we shot them at the matchs, the bullets were to brittle and we actually had them blow up on the targets. And all we were using was WW.
So, all I do anymore is quench them out of the mold. I figure this is getting them surface hardened. Plus, most of my bullets are of a gas checked design. And with my Saeco sizer having a swing out arm, that keeps me from sizing the entire bullet, and just seating the gas check on, it's hard enough to get down the barrel without leading.
Biggest problem is, there are so many variables, condition of barrel,what lube you use,powder and velocity, single shot,(T/C, XP100,etc.) or revolver. Lets see what Veral has to say, as he's probably forgot more info on this, as some of us can learn. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline 38-44

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Re: hardened WW
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2009, 06:25:39 AM »
Thanks Gypsyman
I just asked about the fact that a hardened bullet is surface softened if sized through a die and why not down the barrel where the lead is much more worked. The core remains hard ( perhaps brittle) but what happens to the surface and therefore what about leading?

Offline jk3006

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Re: hardened WW
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 07:37:20 AM »
I think I recall Veral saying in his book that he experienced no difference in accuracy when sizing before HT'ing of after.

Offline Veral

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Re: hardened WW
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 05:14:04 PM »
  Work softening, is the correct term.  Some metals work harden,and if they do, it happens instantly upon deforming the metal.  Brass work hardens to a much higher hardness than mild steel, so hard in fact that it will even damage a ball or roller bearing race.  Yet ignorant people purchase brass hammers to beat on their steel guns and other precision things they don't want to damage, when the soft hammer should be lead alloy,  copper, pure aluminum, or mild steel, in that order, with last hardest. -- I just threw that at you out of my basket of machine shop tricks, as I think we all should get all the knowledge we can.  Especailly this tidbit being so important to gun owners who work on their own guns.

  SOFT lead work hardens instantly when worked, by crushing with hammer blow or whatever.  When hardened lead alloy is worked, as in sizing, I don't know if there is an instant work hardening, but I do know that the deformed metal softens AFTER being worked, and softens quite rapidly, like a day or three.  In other words it will be soft before most people will shoot them.  But only the tiny layer which is actually deformed is work softened, a few thousandths deep.  The rest of the bullet retains full hardness, which prevents bullet obturation and deformation under the pressure of shooting, relitive to the bullets hardness.
 
  The work softened skin has no effect whatsoever on the velocity one can obtain before leading begins, nor on accuracy at those high end velocities. (Or slow speeds.)  So, for the bullet caster knowing that your hard bullets are work softened by sizing is information we would be as well of not knowing. --- Better to know which metal to use to make a soft hammer!
Veral Smith

Offline Sweetwater

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Re: hardened WW
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 10:27:25 AM »
Veral -
THANKS!! I would never have thought of that process in a brass hammer! I use a leather mallet and a polywhatever hammer and always thought I was remiss in not having a brass hammer..

You are such a wealth!

Regards,
Sweetwater
Regards,
Sweetwater

Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway - John Wayne

The proof is in the freezer - Sweetwater

Offline Veral

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Re: hardened WW
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 07:02:59 PM »
  Thank you for the compliment.  And to think I spent a bit of knowledge but didn't lose a thing.
Veral Smith