Long range accuracy of lever actions versus bolts under 300 yards?

[His lordship.]

I have only owned one center fire lever action rifle, it was a Marlin 336 in 30-30.  I thought the accuracy from a bench rest at 100 yards  was quite good using factory ammo and open sites.  It was not as tight as my bolt acton rifles, but the difference was not that big of a deal. 

How effective would a lever action rifle be at taking out a coyote, wild pig or a deer at 200-300 yards?  We all know a bolt gun can do this, but would it be too much for the ol' lever action in terms of accuracy and hitting power?  If the issue is the 30-30 being too weak, what are the alternatives that can be chambered in a lever action to compensate for this?   

Thanks.   

[45-70.gov]

you  can  load  pointy bullets

if you happy with a 2 shooter [as long as one of the 2 are chambered]

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

Chris, Most of my long range shooting is done with bolt guns. I have shot a couple antelope at 200 yards with model 99 Savages. If a guy doesn't stretch things beyond a couple hundred yards, I think the 30-30 would be ok for deer and maybe pigs. Coyotes are pretty small animals. The advantage my .300 Sav. has it will easily use pointed bullets. Come to think of it, I took a mulie with my Savage .358 at a couple hundred yards. It was killed as easily as with my .25-06. I think the rule of thumb is at 200 yards your group will about double the one at 100, the same at 400, it will double the 200. I think generally, we are more concerned about group size for shooting deer than we should be.  Varmits are a different issue as they are smaller. My handgun buddies tell me when you can keep 5 rounds on a paper plate, you can shoot out to that distance. I guess that would be a good measure.

[locutius]

Chris, of course there is the Browning BLR's centrefires which up until quite recently I was not a fan of because there was something that just wasn't quite "nostalgic" lever about them (from my point of view) and I thought if you want accuracy get a bolt. I have since changed my mind and can see the functionality and sense of having just one of these blokes in the gunsafe.

Very good accuracy, easily scope mountable, detachable box magazine that allows SP bullets and a variety of fine longer range cartriges (I'm thinking .270, .308, 7mmWSM or .325WSM I see they have a Marlin .450 on offer as well but I really avoid belted cartridges like the plague). I don't expect the accuracy of a dedicated varmit type bolt action but accuracy equivalent to a good quality out of the box bolt action for sure.

I have in the past owned and very much respected the capabilities of the BLR rimfires, more accurate than my CZ (we call them BRNO = Bruno in Oz), so funny that it has taken all these years to cotton on to the centrefire advantages. No tellin what blind spots we are all capable of. A mate of mine has one at the moment (Jacko) and he is having a trigger job done on it. I must say I was very disappointed with the trigger pull of his little rimfire, way heavier than my old Browning/Miroku.

[Siskiyou]

I have good 100-yard accuracy from my 30-30 using factory Remington C-L and handloaded Hornady 150-grain round nose.  I considered 200-yards a maximum shot with my scoped rifle. 


In fact after discovering some open shooting lanes extending to 200-yards in the area I was hunting I left my Marlin at home and switched to a .270 Winchester.

I have reevaluated the use of the 30-30 with the new Hornady flextip bullets.  I invested in four boxes of the Hornady ammunition this past year.  From the felt recoil, and the louder bark, something must be different.  I have a good supply of reloads and traditional factory ammunition but when I am on the hunt my rifle will be loaded with the 160-grain, red tipped ammunition.

The second change I made was to upgrade the scope from the older 4x as shown to a 2-7X-35 scope to compensate for my older eyes.   The rifle is shown with the 4x scope.   

[locutius]

Siskiyou, from that grouping, looks like you are using that rifle to it's full potential.

[Siskiyou]

I failed to point out the top two rounds were factory 150-grain Remington C-L, and the bottom two were my reloads.  The rifle was a good shooter with the 4x scope, but I think it has improved with the new scope.  That happened to be a good morning.  I had to walk up and check the target because I thought I had missed my second shot.

That rifle likes Remington C-L off the shelf from Wal Mart.  The Hornady flex-tip group was about two inches, I think the increased recoil, and bark caught me off guard.  I was satisfied and did not shoot up a bunch because of the price and the lack of inventory.  After that session a hunting partner was able to pick-up two more boxes for me.

[dpe.ahoy]

 I too have found that my 30-30's like the Hornady LE ammo.  My 1952 Marlin likes it as well as any other I have tried, My single shot likes the Federal a little better.  The LE does hit a different spot, so when sighted in for hunting, that's all I shoot till season is over.  Same with my 2-35 Rems.  I have some of the 35 cal 200gr Hornady LE bullets to try handloading and have placed an order for the 30 cal 160's but they havn't come in yet.  DP

[mannyrock]

Chris,

  The .30-30 is simply not a 250 to 300 yard cartridge.  It was never intended to be.  With a super accurate rifle, and the Hornaday LE rounds, you may be able to stretch it to 200 to 225 yards, but that is it.

   This isn't just a matter of how much "power" it has at 250 to 300 yards, its the trajectory of the bullet. The round just isn't flat-shooting enough to reach that far out, unless you are willing to hold a foot high over your target.

  As for alternative rounds in lever rifles that will easily shoot 200 to 300 yards, the Savage Model 99 lever can be had in .243 Winchester and .308 Winchester.   The Browning Lever Actions (BLR) can be had in just about any centerfire round, including the .243, .308, 7mm-08, .30-06 and 7 Mag.   

  I believe that Marlin introduced a new cartridge last year (called the .308 Marlin), that they offer in their lever actions, and virtually duplicates the .308 Winchester ballistics (although the ammo would be really expensive.)

  For a few years iin the 1970s or 80s, Winchester made its Model 94 lever action in .307 Winchester, but I'm guessing the cost of that ammo is really high as well.  It was very close to the .308 in ballistics.

  If you are really interested in long range shooting, then you should just get a Savage 99 or a BLR in a .243 or .308, BUT the majority of these would probably not give you better than 2 inch groups at 100 yards FROM A BENCH (meaning 6 inch groups at 300 yards)!  Yes, there are exceptions, and some of these rifles will shoot one inch from a bench, but that is certainly not the norm.

  Bottom Line:  Lever guns are highly valued because they are slick, light, fast handling, quick shooting rifles, providing average to above average accuracy with little maintenance, but they are NOT target rifles.

Regards,

Mannyrock

 

[Rangr44]

This is an average 200yd group, shot at a range using factory 200gr PowerPoints in my .356 Win BB94.

FWIW, it measures about 2 1/2" - but (as posted above) these are not target rifles.

I only shoot at my club's range using braced hunting positions - just as I would for a long shot in the field.



(The target's rings are 1" apart.)

.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot a few deer out to 200 yards with a 3030 and it worked fine. I once watched my buddy (who is an excellent shot) take a antelope at 240 yards off hand with an open sighted winchester and drop it in its tracks with a hit right behind the shoulder. I think for them most part its a 200 yard round but that is mostly because not to many shooters invest enough time with one to really learn where it hits at longer ranges. I doubt theres a deer alive tough enough to have corelocks out of a 3030  bounce off it at 300 yards.

[Freezer]

    I agree with the other guys the 30-30 is good to two hundred yards and can do the job to three but that would be pushing it due to it's trajectory.  I own a 94 Win, 336 Marlin and a Savage 99.  The Win and Marlin are 30-30 and the Marlin is better and most accurate of the two with better scope mounting options.  I wouldn't think of using my 94 with iron sites over 125 yards or my Marlin over 250yrds.  That said my 99 is chamber in 308, wears a 2x7 Leupold and holds sub moa with 168gr Sierra Game Kings. I had the trigger touched up and though it's not as good as some of my bolts it's not bad.  This is a great advantage over the other two lever guns when your shooting long distance the Marlin and Win have bad triggers.  My hand loads push it at 2850fps and I would hesatate to take a 400yrd shot with it.  The BLR is capable of the same performance and its trigger can be touched up. 

[jimster]

I don't have any scopes on the 30-30's...so I am limited to 100 yrds.  But I would think a Core Lokt would hurt somethng bad at 200 yds for sure. 
Under hunting conditions with no scope I am limited at what I can do.  But if you can see something a couple hundred yards away with a 30-30 and you know you can hit within 6" of exactly where your aiming I think a deer or maybe a hog would go down with a good bullet.  300 yrds...not so sure anymore.
Not sure what the bullet would do at that slow speed.