gunsmith for Encore issue

[PAndy]

Hi folks.  I'm not a regular contributor here, but do check in now and then.

A friend is having trouble with an Encore .300 Win Mag.  Long story.  Last round of testing wound up with separated cases and possibly damage to the locking lug or (hopefully) springs.  I think he needs to send the whole  works to a gunsmith who knows his stuff on these actions. 

Any suggestions?  Especially someone in OH or PA

Should he send it back to TC?  Barrel in question is a Bergara, not a TC.  No, we are not sure this barrel is to blame for the trouble.  But he needs to know if the receiver is safe, etc.

Your input appreciated.

[yooper77]

I need more information.  Is this factory ammo or reloads?  If this is reloads how many times has the brass been reloaded and is the charge over maximum for that specific barrel and frame setup?  How did other rounds function or was this the first shot from a brand new barrel?  If I had to guess it sounds like a barrel headspace problem or weak brass or too high pressure.  Is there parts missing from the frame or just the barrel?  Does he have other barrels to try?

If its only parts off the barrel then don’t send it to T/C, since it’s a Bergara barrel send it to them.  I don’t know if they guarantee their barrels, but checking with them won’t hurt.

If you feel the receiver suffered damage send it to T/C, please note that any after market work done to the frame will be brought back to factory specs when T/C works on it.

I would not use a local gunsmith, I would use T/C or Bergara, to where ever the true problem lies.

yooper77

[Keith L]

More questions:

• What is happening that you think you have damaged "Locking lug" or springs?
• Is this the result of overloading, or a mystery as to why the damage?

I would send the frame to TC and the barrel to Bergara.  I am with Yooper and if another barrel is available I would at least check to see if it locks up in the frame (assuming that is the complaint with the Bergara barrel) and try the barrel in another frame to see if it locks up.  I wouldn't try shooting it until it has been looked at.  If he bought the barrel locally from a dealer with a lot of experience he may want to start there with questions.

Please let us know how this all turns out.

[PAndy]

I'll spare most of the details, partly because I am getting them all second hand.

First concern is why the cases separated.  Complicated history to sort out, because of the use of two different .300 Winmag barrels, and probably switching brass back  and forth.  I can't keep all the details straight, so won't try.  So I'm not trying to get a diagnosis on that here. 

Second concern (and now top priority)  is with the lock-up, but I think the concern is with the locking lug on the barrel, probably not the frame itself.  Sounded like the spring appeared to be weaker than before and I wondered if there would be enough heat generated from a case separation to cook a spring under there.  Barrel has already been to Bergara once; this would be the second trip.  Originally, he could not chamber a cartridge...acted like it was short-chambered.  He put in a Bellm hinge pin and checked the clearance...thought he was good to go.

Frame is also used with a ML barrel which has always worked great.

THANKS

TC has an excellent reputation for customer service, for sure. 

[yooper77]

Ok, I am feeling 100% certain the Bergara barrel is at fault here.  Since this barrel has had issues from the start, I think it’s a headspace problem.  If Bergara will not refund his money then demand a new barrel, and sell or trade it for a T/C barrel.

The price difference between T/C and Bergara was never a deciding factor for me, plus T/C is made in U.S.A and Bergara is made in Spain.  Please understand this is my personal opinion and please at no time feel compelled to follow my suggestions.

The case separated because it isn’t head spacing improperly in the chamber or the brass is worn out or he is way over maximum on his reloads, it’s hard to guess.

No the heat generated from the cartridge, cannot and will not cook the spring.  I believe Bergara either didn’t fix or caused even more problems for him.

Question, he has two 300 Winchester Magnum Bergara barrels for this frame?  He should work at keeping the cases separate.  Is the other muzzle loader barrel a Bergara or T/C?

Yes T/C will fix or replace their items no questions asked, I am not sure about Bergara I don’t use them.

[PAndy]

In fairness to Bergara (I told you this was complicated...):

The cases that split were all  once-fired an a different barrel.  This was a TC barrel (26" .300 win mag).  My friend sold it after some other troubles with it,  rather than messing with it.  He pulled bullets on the other cartridges he was going to fire out of the Bergara barrel, and all  the cases had a hairline crack on the inside.  The separations may have been mainly the result of the previous TC barrel firing.

I think the works is going to Bergara to give them a chance to make it right.  Not sure if he will send the frame along or not.

# #  #

I had a blown cartridge in an Anschutz target rifle 25 years ago...either a bad round or a cleaning patch in the bore...not sure which.  Anyway, that apparently damaged the springs behind the extractors somehow, because the parts fell right out in my hand.  We slapped her back together with new springs, and I headed off to the '84 Olympic Trials in Chino California the same year!  I was not in contention for a team spot, but the gun worked fine.

As I noted, I have not even seen this barrel.  My intent was to get some input on what the heck he should do with it.  At least he is not going to shoot it again until it gets a stamp of approval from someone credible.

[yooper77]

Ok, I understand you don’t have all the ins and outs of his exact problem.  In order to solve a complicated problem we will need all the finding and facts.  Any gunsmith will ask for the same if not more.

Once fired brass being cracked out of a T/C 300 Win Mag barrel, smells fishy, or yes possibly there was a problem with the T/C barrel.  Having issues, doesn’t really paint a clear picture.

Is he head spacing the 300 WM off the shoulder or rim?  Do you know what his load data is?  Is he neck sizing for this barrel?

The quick fix is to send it back and ask for a new barrel and trade or sell it off.

I would send the barrel back, but don’t allow him to put his T/C frame in the hands of Bergara, bad idea in my opinion.

Sorry, I am not sure what the story about the Anschutz target rifle 25 years ago has to do with this 300 Win Mag Bergara barrel problem?

yooper77

[Grumulkin]

If you think the frame is damaged, send it to T/C.

If you think the barrel is at fault or damaged, send it to Bergara.

Now for the head separations.  The 300 Winchester Magnum has a belt so, if the chamber of the barrel is cut correctly and a cartridge chambers, headspaceing should be acceptable whether or not the shoulder was bumped too far back, etc.  Are you SURE, these are once fired cases?  All bottlenecked cartridge cases will have head separations if loaded too many times.  If the loads are hot and/or the chamber sloppy, the separations will occur sooner.  Also, some brands of brass are more durable than others.

In the "normal" world, you could have incipient head separations after as few as 3 to 5 reloadings in certain cartridges.  If they really occurred in once fired brass, the fault is with the gun.

[JON8777]

Excessive head space, measure the space between the frame and barrel when it is closed with a feeler gauge.

300wm are prone to having splitting problems when you bump the neck back to far. Turn the sizer die back so the face of your barrel and the face of the brass is 0.000"

[NOLA]

The Bergara barrels are guaranteed

[NOLA]

best idea is to check with bergara

[Keith L]

This is an odd thread all around.  Earlier the op talks about having trouble with another barrel (TC) and selling it.  Now he has trouble with this barrel.  This guy either has crummy luck or there is something else going on.  And I agree it is not good to sell a problem to someone else.  I hope he made the new owner a great deal and explained the problems.

[yooper77]

I know what the single cause is to all his problems, it’s not hard to figure out.

yooper77