Author Topic: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test  (Read 3661 times)

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Offline williamlayton

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2010, 01:44:49 AM »
Now, I don't begrudge you shooting up a great coat since, where we live, most folks don't know what one is----but---I can't find great coat futures. ;)
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Offline slim rem 7

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2010, 03:22:54 AM »
 well in my 38 special ,,the winchester soft lead 150 grn target ammo is my choice of carry ammo..
 why because i can hit what i shoot at with it pretty dang quick..this with my special w 4 inch .. it allows me to go upper chest ,neck an face as primary first shot target..ain t nobody walking through a face or neck hit with this rnd..too many vitals come togather there..thats my bet,you make yours..
 so thats my bet..hope i never have to win with it..jmo slim
 ps ..i know.. most go center mass..but for me thats for after the shtf..won t be but one shot fired.. if i get to try it,my way
..know you gun ,know you rnd, know youself ..shot placements the key..for me ..
 that said,, if i find a flat nose that im that accurate with ..id switch.. :)
 just ain t no money for experimenting right now..

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2010, 06:58:42 AM »
William,
When I lived in Houston 1990-92 and Fort Hood 1996-98, I would have keeled over from heat exhaustion if I had even heard the word "greatcoat."

Slim,
With the confidence you have in your gun & ammo combination, any BG would be making a bad bet to try his luck with you. Col. Applegate ordered .38 ammo for the OSS in WWII, spec'ed at 125g FMJ at 625 fps. No civilian shooter would willingly choose such a round in today's America, but Applegate intentionally specified it for Special Forces & operatives who would be involved in desperate close-range fights in which sidearms would be primary weapons. I can only guess that he did so because people could hit very quickly and very accurately with it, and that at close range it would reach the vitals. Sounds kinda like what you're describing, doesn't it? Except you have a heavier bullet, made of lead, moving about 150fps faster. . . .
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2010, 05:52:25 PM »
Just a short report tonight from the battlefront, as your correspondent is busy catching up on both shooting and writing at this time. More to follow soon on yesterday's shoot!

LOAD: CIS .380 Rimmed, Mk. 2Z ball ammo, 178g FMJ

GUN: S&W Mod. 33-1, 4" bbl.

CHRONO RESULTS (10 rds.), temp. 80 degrees: LO 618.1; HI 656.4; AVG: 641.1; ES: 38.29; SD: 13.49. Completely consistent with 600-650 fps velocities listed for British ammo. Quite consistent. Absolutely no barrel fouling.

POI at 50 feet, off chair/sandbags, sitting on ground: +5 3/4", R 2 1/2". First two rds. off paper (high); adjusted POA to bottom of cross, resulting in 8/8 hits in 2 1/4" group. 7 of the 8 went into 1 1/4".

ADDITIONAL "GREATCOAT TESTING":

1. Shot #1 @ 15', chrono'ed at 604.1 fps: went thru approximately 12-16 layers of wool coat plus multiple linings, cracked open milk jug behind the coat. Bullet fell out of coat upon examination, and the density of folds made it impossible to accurately determine the bullet's path. (It makes a small hole in the wool, and tends to practically seal up.) Bottom line: poorly-designed test shot, but it did show that if you rolled your overcoat up into a tight roll about 12"H x 18"W x 18"D, the bullet wouldn't get through :-) In the photo, the uppermost cartridge case & bullet are from this shot. Bullet is undeformed, and neatly fits into fired case.

2. Shot #2, chrono'ed at 632.2 fps: went through 8 layers of wool coat fabric, 8 layers of synthetic coat lining, 4 water-filled milk jugs, lightly dented stop board and rebounded into jug #4. The holes ripped in the milk jugs indicated the bullet was nose-first entering jug #1, tumbling as it exited jug #1 and thereafter. I read somewhere that the water:gelatin ratio for bullet penetration is approximately 2:1. If that's correct, this shot would have penetrated 12" of gelatin (9" while tumbling), plus 8 plastic layers of milk jugs (7 while tumbling), AFTER passing through 16 layers of coat/lining. The bullet path was generally straight, deviating only slightly while traversing the jugs more or less through the center. Appropriately, this coat was marked "Made in England"! In the photo, the lower cartridge case & bullet are from this shot. Bullet is undeformed, and neatly fits into fired case.

I guess opinions may differ as to the desirability of having a pistol bullet tumble within its target, as tumbling may generally cause the bullet to veer unpredictably. If it was originally on track to hit vitals, it might miss. On the other hand, if it was originally on track to miss vitals, it might veer into a vital part. But the way Shot #2 acted, it provided both a straight track & lots of tumbling; plenty of penetration against unarmored targets, with presumably a wicked wound channel. This would also tend to reduce overpenetration & get lots of "target effects" before possibly exiting the target.

I will provide more shot analysis from yesterday's shoot ASAP. I'll close now with the observation that it's high time to put the infamous "German Greatcoat Story" to rest. Obviously, it was a case of faulty ammo. BTW, the only BIB I've ever experienced was in a S&W M-1917, shooting WWII surplus .45 ACP ball ammo. That didn't lead me to argue that the .45 was a "weak sister."
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline cvixx

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2010, 02:50:55 PM »
When I started in law enforcement in 1971, the City of L.A. issued high speed 158 loads but we were allowed to shoot 200 grain loads if we purchased them.  At the time there were 2 distinct loads, both in the 750-800 fps area; the Winchester 200 was copper plated and had a blunt nose, the Remington was lead with a longer nose.  I carried both on and off; the idea was that either one would tumble after hitting something.  We then went to 125 grain SPs, which did NOT expand but kept the ACLU happy  When the switch to autos was made us dinosaurs were allowed to continue to carry out duty or back-up revolvers if we so wished but inline with teh use of HPs in the autos we went to 125 grain HPs

Now, I never shot anyone, or anything, for that matter. But I did manage to buy 500 Remington bullets from midway decades ago, when they were being discontinued and carry them in my back-up.  I know, in an age of hi-cap autos, a 2" Smith or Colt wheelgun is way out of date, but for near 40 years it has been by my side.

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2010, 04:15:31 PM »
cvixx,
Thanks for some more history on police use of this round, plus more input on its characteristics. (Or at least what you all thought they would do! :-)

Like you, I've never had to shoot this round--or anything else--in anger, and hope I never will. Even so, it seems odd to me that police rounds that served for decades suddenly became considered  "suicidal" for civilians to use for self-defense in the 1970s or '80s! Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that no advances have occurred in recent decades, nor am I claiming that modern-day LEOs face the same kinds of threats they faced back then. Clearly, things have gotten far, far tougher for police: BG's have everything from better guns, cars, and lawyers (ahem), to a higher likelihood of gangs, PCP use, etc. So, if I were an LEO these days, I'd want serious hi-cap firepower in my primary sidearm, at least.

But as I've mentioned before, most of us civilians (or retired military/police) have no duty, little need, and usually no authority to chase down gangs in their lairs. We also have little need, I imagine, to shoot through cars & windshields like police obviously do. In other words, it seems to me that "our" threat actually has more in common with the traditional threats than it has in common with the threats modern LEO's face. Accordingly, isn't it logical that for most of us, traditional solutions can still work?

For me, that means heavy, solid lead bullets with large, flat meplats and/or sharp shoulders. What I lack in expansion, I hope to make up in penetration--at least I can rest fairly well assured that I could shoot thru a BG from side-to-side, my bullet won't bounce off the sternum or ribs in frontal shots, or off the skull in most cases. It also won't run out of gas in the periphery--if pointed at bones, blood vessels, or important organs when it goes "bang," it will reach them, crush its way through them, and go out the other side. Likewise, it'll get thru my oft-mentioned leather furniture :-)

I recently re-read "The Ayoob Files," and was struck by the number of hits that simply failed to get to the BG's boiler room. JHPs expanded in arms (.45ACP), ground to a halt in torso musculature (.45 ACP), failed to penetrate ribs in a contact shot (.38SPL 125g), failed to penetrate brain in a contact shot to the skull (.38SPL 125g), etc. In other cases, the JHP functioned as designed and did its job well--perhaps better than a solid would have done, it's tough to tell. For my girls, I think the .38 S&W with a heavy-as-possible LFN or LSWC bullet is preferable to a faster & lighter .38SPL or 9mm that may not reach what it needs to reach. In my personal sidearms, it's 255g LFP in .45LC @ 870, plus 200g LSWC-K in .38SPL @ 750. My Terrier holds the 200g LFPs I've written about, @ 600. Everything is low blast, flash, and recoil, deep & straight penetration. If I can get a reliable tumbler that penetrates deeply, I may switch to that in the Terrier. (Amazing as it sounds, that's very much like what I got from the much-maligned British 178g FMJ! Full report follows this weekend.)

Am I an expert? No. Do I feel inadequately armed? No. Do I think you are outdated & vulnerable? No again.

Take care & stay safe. Thanks for your service to our communities. I think Ayoob's analogy was sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. I appreciate dogs, don't you?  :-)
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline tonygrz

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2010, 12:57:10 PM »
Hi,

Just posted on another thread that I just bought a S&W Mod 32-1 in 38 S&W.  I am now looking for some RCBS dies.  Do any of you know where I can find them???  I also have several hundred 148gr HBWC that I want to try in the Terrier.

Thanks for your help,

Tony
Life is great, don't screw it up with WORK !!!

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2010, 01:08:53 PM »
Hi Tony,
Welcome to the "club," which now has at least two "members": you & me! Actually, a few other guys have mentioned owning one. Anyway, that's a very nice revolver.

I use Lee dies--never looked at any other option, although I have RCBS and Lymans that I like a lot. Have found the Lee dies perfectly suitable. Older threads indicate problems enountered with sizer dies, but now they include a .38 Auto die that works perfectly for .38 S&W, so I've had zero problems. Anyway, I usually buy from Midway, or occasionally from Mid-South Shooters Supply. I know that many buy from Graf & Sons. If you strike out with all of them, you may want to check RCBS directly.

Best of luck. From all I hear, you've got a great bullet for use in this caliber.
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline Mikey

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2010, 01:28:58 AM »
tonygrz:  If I am reading yourposts correctly it sounds like you intend to use a wadccuter slug cast for the 38 Special in a 38 Smith and Wesson.  I believe some shooters of the Webley 38 S&Ws have experienced bulged barrels by using 38 cal slugs in the .360-.361 diameter bore of the 38 S&W and I think there are posts on this forum relating to that. 

The diameter of the 38 Spl is .357-.358 with the 38 S&W running .360-.361.  I know that does not sound like much of a difference but you need to be careful that you don't 'up end' a 38 spl slug in the barrel of your 38 S&W. 

Properly sized bullets for the 38 S&W should be available.  Some cast slugs for the 9mm Makarov (.360 diameter) should also work well enough in that Terrier.

Offline tonygrz

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2010, 12:37:58 PM »
Thanks Mikey.  I was going to use 38 spl wadcutters in the 38 S&W.  Thanks for the important info.  I'll google some cast bullet manufactors and see what I can find in the .360 size.

Tony
Life is great, don't screw it up with WORK !!!

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2010, 01:52:45 PM »
Hi Tony, and it's always good to hear from you, Mikey.

Tony, if possible, slug your barrel. Mine are only .359, so I "beagle" my molds with a bit of aluminum tape to increase the diameter slightly from .358 to about .359-361. I've read that some HBWCs actually measure .362 or so at the base, so that may also help you out. Can you mike the bullets at the base?

"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2010, 03:19:22 PM »
Does anybody have access to Textbook of Small Arms 1929, a British publication that evidently has good info about the original British Army .380/200g cartridge?
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2010, 04:04:05 PM »
You are killing me with this thread, I have been looking almost daily now trying to find a good .38 S&W to buy and I really shouldn't buy one right now. Seesh...........I love this stuff. ;D
Badnews Bob
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Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2010, 04:23:55 PM »
Bob,
Never thought of myself as the local crack dealer, but I guess the .38 S&W has that effect on some of us  :-)

Maybe I shouldn't mention that my shooting buddy, "Revolvergeek," is selling me his Colt Police Positive Special in .380 Rimmed, aka .38 S&W. It is stamped as property of the RHKP (Royal Hong Kong Police). As soon as I move a bit more unneeded ammo & gun accessories to those who can use it, I will "take delivery." I know Hong Kong isn't Shanghai, but it certainly invokes the police raiding squads led by Fairbairn & Sykes, doesn't it?

In general, I don't consider myself a fan of FMJ ammo, although it certainly can get the job done. (Nobody trash-talks the .45ACP, right?) But I tell ya, I wouldn't feel poorly armed carrying that much-maligned Mk. 2Z 178g FMJ, after seeing what it punches through as it (often) tumbles. I don't know if I can get a 200g LRN or LFP to tumble, or whether I should want it to tumble, but I liked watching the second and/or third water jug burst open violently. . .as the 178g's neat round hole in the front of the first jug became an oblong gash as it hit, burst & exited #2 and #3. (All I'd ask is well-manufactured ammo, not stored in the bright, hot sun to degrade the nitrocellulose or cordite powder charge. I think that was the origin of that round's bad rap.)
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline williamlayton

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2010, 02:51:12 AM »
Observations from one that waffels on this subject.
There are three bullets that I like and feel comfortable with--all in a 1911 format.
The .45, .38 super & 9x23.
Now for the waffel effect/affect.
I am giving my daughter a .327 Smith and buying another--ouch--for my wife.
I think that at least they will have some protection and the .32 has killed a multiple number of folks.
The .327 will probably replace the .38 Sadium under the matress.
Blessings from the king of waffeler's.
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Offline tony212

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2010, 04:22:17 AM »
I have an old Colt Police Positive and have had very good accuracy using 158 lswc.  Out of a four inch barrel I'm getting about 650-700 FPS and they easily penetrate 6 jugs.  I have also loaded some Remington 125 JSP. They too are pretty acurate and over my chronograph are right about 1000 FPS.  I'm at work so I don't have my load data in front of me, but if I remember correctly it is with Unique powder, Winchester cases and CCI small pistol primers.  The loads came from the MD Smith reloading pages.
Tony212

Offline Old Fart

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2010, 04:48:45 AM »
I apologize for going off topic, but this reminded me of one of the thing my grandkids like.
I take a few milk hugs and some clear water bottles and fill them up with colored water.
They get the biggest kick out of busting them and the following colored explosions.

Thanks for posting the info. Very informative.
"All my life I've had a bad case of the Fred's. Fredrick Vanderbilt taste on a Fred Sanford budget." CR
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Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2010, 05:32:19 PM »
William,
I've also gone back & forth over the caliber issue, but after seeing what some handloaded .32 S&W Longs (115g @ 770fps) can do, I've reconsidered. That bullet weight at that velocity sounds tame, until you consider sectional density, penetration, and the effect of lead bullets on bone structure. . .and see that the humble .32 S&W Long can be raised up onto its hind legs. So can the .38 S&W, as the "research" behind this thread has proved to my personal satisfaction.

Are they viable police rounds? Not in my opinion. Little effect against auto glass & bodies, and low firepower against today's drug gangs.

Are they viable SD/HD rounds? I believe they are, as they always were, if for no other reason than very few people who try to bother our wives & daughters expect to get shot in the process. That's especially true of a heavy .38 S&W with a flat nose, I suspect.

Now, IMO, the .327 Magnum is indeed a magnum, and it is an entirely different different solution than "slow & heavy." The .327 sizzles out of the pistol barrel, and the torque is as noticeable as the wicked crack-boom of the muzzle blast. If that bullet doesn't expand, it cauterizes a wound channel thru a BG in a hurry. If it does expand, it's an extremely fast .40-something. Anybody who absorbs a snootful of those from your ladies is simply not going to be ready for more. IF most "stops" are psychological, and IF the .357's famous "stopping power" is partially due to its atomic blast and flash. . .the .327 will have very much the same effect. Ditto, if one accepts that "temporary cavity" is indeed a factor in effectiveness--the .327 will have plenty.
 
Although I've chosen "slow & heavy" in .45LC, .38SPL, and .38 S&W for a variety of reasons, I respectfully suggest that you're over-thinking this one  :-) The .327 will probably stop anyone liable to be stopped by small-arms fire, given the same hits that work in other calibers.

My advice is free, however, and may be worth every bit you paid for it :-)


"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2010, 01:55:20 PM »
BTW what would a usable 4" 33-1 go for? One is for sale on Gunbroker for 399 plus 25 to ship, My FFL charges me 15 bucks would this be a good buy? If I won the action of course. 8)

Action number 165445286.

 I like my .32s also I have a new .327 blackhawk and an older single six .32 H&R mag.
Badnews Bob
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Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2010, 02:18:10 PM »
Badnews,

I have Goodnews for you  :-)

I think you did fine. Of the four M-33 and M-33-1 I bought recently, that's about what I generally paid

BTW, if you need .32 SWL/HRM dies, let me know. I've got a set at a v.g. price.  :-)
"Oh, for a touch of the vanished hand and the sound of the voice that is stilled."

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2010, 02:22:21 PM »
Thanks, I already have die thou just having a hard time finding brass for the .327, I have some on backorder hope it shows up soon they want way to much for loaded rounds to feed that 8 holer.
Badnews Bob
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Offline Merle

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2010, 03:43:03 PM »
Hi,

Just posted on another thread that I just bought a S&W Mod 32-1 in 38 S&W.  I am now looking for some RCBS dies.  Do any of you know where I can find them???  I also have several hundred 148gr HBWC that I want to try in the Terrier.

Thanks for your help,

Tony



For a number of years I have been using Lee dies with complete satisfaction. I do make one change - I drill & tap the lock ring for a set screw & remove the rubber "O" ring. The exact position & angle don't seem to matter, so great precision is not needed. I then turn the lock ring upside down which puts more metal against the press. I find that keeps the settings far more secure, as I frequently had the lock ring slip when held in place by the "O" ring only. I'm just too cheap to buy replacement lock rings for all my dies, so this works out well for me.

 ;D ;D ;D

Offline Merle

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2010, 03:44:43 PM »
Hi Tony,
Welcome to the "club," which now has at least two "members": you & me! Actually, a few other guys have mentioned owning one. Anyway, that's a very nice revolver.

I use Lee dies--never looked at any other option, although I have RCBS and Lymans that I like a lot. Have found the Lee dies perfectly suitable. Older threads indicate problems enountered with sizer dies, but now they include a .38 Auto die that works perfectly for .38 S&W, so I've had zero problems. Anyway, I usually buy from Midway, or occasionally from Mid-South Shooters Supply. I know that many buy from Graf & Sons. If you strike out with all of them, you may want to check RCBS directly.

Best of luck. From all I hear, you've got a great bullet for use in this caliber.


Well, if you let me count my Enfield # 2 revolver, there are three of us !


 ;D ;D ;D

Offline Merle

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2010, 03:50:03 PM »
tonygrz:  If I am reading yourposts correctly it sounds like you intend to use a wadccuter slug cast for the 38 Special in a 38 Smith and Wesson.  I believe some shooters of the Webley 38 S&Ws have experienced bulged barrels by using 38 cal slugs in the .360-.361 diameter bore of the 38 S&W and I think there are posts on this forum relating to that. 

The diameter of the 38 Spl is .357-.358 with the 38 S&W running .360-.361.  I know that does not sound like much of a difference but you need to be careful that you don't 'up end' a 38 spl slug in the barrel of your 38 S&W. 

Properly sized bullets for the 38 S&W should be available.  Some cast slugs for the 9mm Makarov (.360 diameter) should also work well enough in that Terrier.


I have heard second-hand reports that indicated some high pressure loads blew thru the bullet body & left the hollow base lodged in the bore. That would sure enough cause a problem with the next shot. I seem to remember warings about this in older loading manuals & the American Rifleman, but that was years ago so my memory is fuzzy.

 :o :o :o

Offline dogngun

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2010, 02:10:51 AM »
L M Just for your information, I have a 1915 H&R top break hammerless .38 S&W revolver and an older Iver Johnson safety hammer .38. I find that the HKS speedloaders made for the J-frame S&W (M-36 Chief Special) works just fine with these revolvers and also works with S&W top break .38's.

 Makes it a little more competitive, huh?


mark

ADDED: I used to reload .38 S&W using .357 single ended wad cutters right way around - the open end expands to fill the bore and accuracy is good.

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2010, 03:13:36 PM »
Dog,
If you need to poke a buncha holes in a greatcoat really fast, sounds like you're set!  :-)

I've read of others successfully using the WC solution for .38 S&W handloads, counting on the skirt to expand and engage the rifling. It's the exact same principle as the Minie ball, which revolutionized use of the muzzle-loading rifle in the 1860s. IIRC, I've read that the skirt of the Remington WC mikes at something larger than .358, plus is soft enough to to expand a bit more if necessary to engage rifling. I miked a couple of 32-1 and 33-1 barrels, and they're .359, which is why Speer 13 loads use .358 bullets designed for .38 SPL. I do know, however, that Webleys and Enfields have a larger groove size.
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Offline WD45

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2010, 09:05:35 AM »
Mikey,
I thought the guys that were bulging the barrels were actually trying to shoot 38 special out of the 38 S&W. I thought the special would chamber in a 38 S&W but the 38 S&W will not chamber in the special but I may be wrong

Offline LouisianaMan

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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2010, 12:11:06 PM »
Badnews Bob,

A very nice 32-1 is at http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9757455&oh=216543

Did you ever pick up a Mod 33-1?
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Re: .38 S&W w/200g bullets vs. milk jugs--penetration test
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2010, 01:51:22 PM »
This thread about the 38's has been very interesting. I too worked up some hot 38 special loads with Lil Gun powder behind 158 jacketed and 158 SWCGC's. I chose Lil Gun because of the low pressure levels it works at. Let me say now that there are zero, repeat zero pressure signs on the brass or primers. Fired brass practically falls out of the cylinders. I researched this load and ended up with the 158's sitting on top of 14.0 grains of Lil Gun. Not having a chrony the speed is estimated in the 1100+ fps range. You can tell something good is going on when you touch it off. I've shot this load in my Blackhawk, Dan Wesson and American Derringer. A friend shoots it in his Smith, don't recall the model, 38 Special. I wouldn't shoot this load in anything less than a good, solid revolver or other firearm. My other 38's I like are 180 gr RNFP's over 4.4 gr of Unique for approx 850 fps.   
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