Author Topic: HOT LOADS IN NEW VAQUERO (Read 5461 times)

Autorim · « **Reply #30 on:** June 04, 2009, 03:15:23 PM »

If any of you want to shoot hot loads in your guns, just go right ahead and do what you think is best. I won't help you do it though.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:39:33 PM »

Quote from: m-g Willy on May 30, 2009, 06:33:54 AM

Anyone know how hot you can load the 45 new Vaquero?
My load for a Rossi 92 and a Blackhawk is 250 gr. JHP over 22gr. 2400
Would like to be able to carry a new Vaqero with the same load.

I wouldn't DREAM of using those loads in that ~~flaming turd of a gun!~~

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:48:01 PM »

Quote from: MePlat on June 01, 2009, 02:56:19 AM

......... Does that mean that 23.5 will blow up a gun with the 260 JHP when Hodgdons recommends 26 or so grs. H110 with the 250 Hornady XTP?

You sure 'bout that? I believe Linebaugh list 27 gr. as absolute maximum in a heavy framed Ruger with the H-110/XTP combo, and it's plenty.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2009, 03:52:22 PM »

Quote from: mjbgalt on May 31, 2009, 05:14:48 PM

part of what you say is accurate. the part you missed, i believe, is that the .45 colt and .44 mag brass is wider at the rim than the ACP, which creates more backthrust on the frame.

also, the .45 colt cartridge is much fatter than the acp, which means less steel between the rounds in the cylinder, which also takes some of the safety margin.

you can shoot a .223 in a contender but not a .243. same reason.

-Matt

Being wider would help dissipate that backthrust, and the .45 Colt ain't all that much fatter.

henryb · « **Reply #34 on:** June 21, 2009, 09:56:29 AM »

Quote from: Travis Morgan on June 20, 2009, 03:48:01 PM

Quote from: MePlat on June 01, 2009, 02:56:19 AM
......... Does that mean that 23.5 will blow up a gun with the 260 JHP when Hodgdons recommends 26 or so grs. H110 with the 250 Hornady XTP?

You sure 'bout that? I believe Linebaugh list 27 gr. as absolute maximum in a heavy framed Ruger with the H-110/XTP combo, and it's plenty.

I have to agree here w Travis here. That load is real close to what Mr Clements recommends as the max load in his 5 shot Heavy 45 conversion on a Blackhawk Frame with a line bored cyl and the innards worked to much tighter tolerances. I own one. Loads at this level 26 grains of H110 are approaching the 454 Casull level of energy. The Vaquero definitely isn't up to the task and it'd be pretty hard on a stock Blackhawk. I'm not saying I think the metallurgy isnt up to it but sooner than later, the thing will start rattling from the pounding yer givin' it.

If'n you want to shoot a 45 caliber slug that fast, get a bigger gun.

I did the conversion for big critters and it'll knock em down but the 250's moving more than 1200 fps aren't much fun from the handle end of the gun.

MePlat · « **Reply #35 on:** June 21, 2009, 05:23:34 PM »

Hodgdons data shows a 250 gr Hornady XTP/26.5 gr H110/win LP/win case at 29800CUP. This is within what Linebaugh says a BH is more than capable or handling.
This data is also said suitable for RUGER, Freedom Arms and T/C. by Hodgdons themselves

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #36 on:** June 21, 2009, 07:23:08 PM »

I'm not arguing the text of a book I never read; I'm just offering a word of caution; BTW, 23.6 gr. of H-110 under a 250 gr. XTP coming out of a 3 1/2" sheriff's model was tearing the web of my hand after three rounds, and after six, I need to tighten all the grip frame screws back up, as the grip frame was wobbling! Do what you will, but those loads are best used in someone else's gun.

Tallwalker · « **Reply #37 on:** June 24, 2009, 11:44:47 AM »

Brian Pearce covered this pretty well in "Handloader" No. 217. He has a table with .45 Colt loads at different pressure levels for different guns. He did say that the Colt Peacemaker had been offered in .45 ACP, and that it probably was good for 16,000-19,000 psi loads. The article is pretty good reading for anyone curious about that issue. By the way, 18.0 grains of 2400 is above that 19,000 psi limit.

Tallwalker · « **Reply #38 on:** June 24, 2009, 11:46:12 AM »

Quote from: MePlat on June 21, 2009, 05:23:34 PM

Hodgdons data shows a 250 gr Hornady XTP/26.5 gr H110/win LP/win case at 29800CUP. This is within what Linebaugh says a BH is more than capable or handling.
This data is also said suitable for RUGER, Freedom Arms and T/C. by Hodgdons themselves

The New Vaquero is definitely NOT!!!! safe for "Ruger" loads.

Racer X · « **Reply #39 on:** June 29, 2009, 02:05:54 PM »

Racer X · « **Reply #40 on:** June 29, 2009, 02:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Travis Morgan on June 20, 2009, 03:39:33 PM

My load for a Rossi 92 and a Blackhawk is 250 gr. JHP over 22gr. 2400

I don't where you got the load data, but that is hotter than any recommended load I have for a 250 grain jacketed bullet using 2400. The heaviest loads I have seen for a 250 grain jacketed bullet in a 45 Colt using 2400 is 20.8 grains for a 250 grain XTP (source: Hornady manual).

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #41 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:12:34 PM »

Ditto; that's kinda warm the New V.

MePlat · « **Reply #42 on:** June 29, 2009, 04:40:32 PM »

Lyman 49th edition loading book page 440 Hornady 250 gr XTP 2400 powder 22.0 grains. Tested in a contender.
The load does exist in a loading book.
Load what one wants.

Racer X · « **Reply #43 on:** July 01, 2009, 01:47:43 PM »

Quote from: MePlat on June 29, 2009, 04:40:32 PM

Lyman 49th edition loading book page 440 Hornady 250 gr XTP 2400 powder 22.0 grains. Tested in a contender.
The load does exist in a loading book.
Load what one wants.

No kidding? Then I must admit I stand corrected. What is the test gun barrel length and the published velocity?

MePlat · « **Reply #44 on:** July 01, 2009, 02:07:03 PM »

Knowlege is awesome.

10 inch 1410 fps
15 inch 1428

Don't assume because you haven't seen a particular thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I've assumed before and was wrong too.

kiddekop · « **Reply #45 on:** July 07, 2009, 04:12:39 AM »

Corbon should have some information on Ruger Blackhawk strength, 8 or 9 years ago I spoke to a corbon tech about 41 mag load data and their ammo for griz,at that time I was informed they used Ruger Blackhawks to test some of their ammo.

454Puma · « **Reply #46 on:** July 12, 2009, 07:17:45 PM »

Did you read the Manual on that New Vaqero? It specifically states to not use the Ruger only loading! It is a Aluminum Frame! Not Steel!
If you insist on loading that hot please provide the pic's if you survive!

MePlat · « **Reply #47 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:00:37 AM »

454puma

I don't know where you got it has an aluminum frame but I think you need to go look at one. I had one. Mine was not aluminum.
quote from rugers website: "Mid-size steel frame and cylinder scaled down to the same size as the original 1955 Ruger Blackhawk"
Research is a good thing.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #48 on:** July 13, 2009, 04:44:06 AM »

Quote from: 454Puma on July 12, 2009, 07:17:45 PM

Did you read the Manual on that New Vaqero? It specifically states to not use the Ruger only loading! It is a Aluminum Frame! Not Steel!
If you insit on loading that hot please provide the pic's if you survive!

You're probably thinking of the gripframe, not the part the cylinder goes in. The New Model Blackhawks came with aluminum gripframes, too, but can handle the heavy loads.

You've just got your nomenclature all dicked up.

454Puma · « **Reply #49 on:** July 13, 2009, 10:58:22 AM »

Well I just looked at the Ruger site and it seems they have removed all reference to the New Vaquero and Hot loads! So if they seem to think it's fine go ahead and load heavy!

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #50 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:41:11 AM »

Please keep XXXXXXX thoughts like that in your head; they're liable to influence beginners to do something dangerous.

MePlat · « **Reply #51 on:** July 14, 2009, 01:11:57 AM »

Lets get anchored here. No one recommends Ruger Blackhawk wide flat open loads for the small vaquero. At least not anyone with enough brains to fill a thimble.
BUT when some one comes on here and says HOT loads we must remmeber that hot is a relative term.
Like I say in an earlier post everyone will see the word H-O-T and they immediately jump to the conclusion that the person meant a load that will singe the grass they are standing on from the muzle flash of the gun.
As i said before SAMMI spec for the 45 Colt is 14000 psi.
Now if I mention 16000 psi that is a H-O-T-T-E-R load but it is not a H-O-T load if loads of 18000 or 20000 psi is being talked about in the same discussion.
Now if we are talking about only the 14000 psi load and the 16000 psi load then the 16000 psi load becomes a H-O-T load in that discussion only.
Will the new Vaquero last longer with a 14000 psi load that a 16000 psi? Yes just like it will last longer with a 16000 psi load than a 18000 psi load.
Same can be said for any gun. The lower the chamber pressure the easier the gun has it.
Would I use an 18.5 gr load or 2400 in a New Vaquero with a 250-255 grain Keith? Yes I have. Would I go hotter? No, I have 3 454 Casulls and 2 Ruger Blackhawks in 45 Colt. One has to use the ole brain. So i have LOADED hotter BUT NOT hot.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #52 on:** July 14, 2009, 05:16:12 AM »

As a general rule, when I'm talking about "hot" loads, I'm talking Keith level. They can be fired in most modern guns with no problems. When I'm talking about loads that are Ruger only, I state that. When they're hot for a Ruger, I state that, as well. Since I started working with the public, I've sorta started speaking like I have a lawyer in my pocket because people like to second guess everything you say or decide they know what you meant, rather than asking for clarification.

m-g Willy · « **Reply #53 on:** July 17, 2009, 06:46:23 PM »

Quote from: Travis Morgan on June 20, 2009, 03:39:33 PM

[

I wouldn't DREAM of using those loads in that ~~flaming turd of a gun!~~

UH??
What gun are you reffering too?
The Rossi is a gun that can digest some pretty warm loads.(See PACO KELLY on the LEVERGUN site for info)

Lone Star · « **Reply #54 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:40:36 PM »

Quote

Lyman 49th edition loading book page 440 Hornady 250 gr XTP 2400 powder 22.0 grains. Tested in a contender.....
10 inch 1410 fps
15 inch 1428

What many fail to realize is that the Lyman data for the .45LC developed in the 15" T/C Encore barrel was shot in a .45/.410 ga barrel, not a pure .45LC barrel (like the 10" Contender was). That is why the velocities are so close. I'm sure that the pressures in the Contender were far higher than those in the Encore.

.

MePlat · « **Reply #55 on:** July 18, 2009, 02:18:15 AM »

The original question was where was load data that went up to 22 gr 2400. I told them. In Lymans 49th edition. page 440.

Lone Star · « **Reply #56 on:** July 19, 2009, 11:45:27 AM »

Settle down son. I was just writing a pre-emptive informative post because eventually someone usually asks "why is the velociy in the longer barrel so slow?" I wasn't responding directly to your or the "original" question. Sorry to have upset you........

.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #57 on:** July 21, 2009, 05:26:11 PM »

Quote from: m-g Willy on July 17, 2009, 06:46:23 PM

Quote from: Travis Morgan on June 20, 2009, 03:39:33 PM
[

I wouldn't DREAM of using those loads in that ~~flaming turd of a gun!~~

UH??
What gun are you reffering too?
The Rossi is a gun that can digest some pretty warm loads.(See PACO KELLY on the LEVERGUN site for info)

New Vaquero. They're like one of those bargain bin framing hammers; they look and feel the same, but won't take the same abuse.