breeding farms etc

[slim rem 7]

i was reading a piece aboutum....they talked like dn in texas these farms produce these farm raised bucks then sellum for up to five figures to the guide ,,and hunt package outfits.. this to supply the demand by wealthy hunters for that big racks on the wall..i sure hope everything we get to see on tv is not predominantly this type thing....ive seen a few that it seemed might be this sort of thing.... but i sure hope most of its not.. jmo slim

[dukkillr]

Pretty standard for the tame shooting operations.  Those breeder deer are about as wild as cattle and the "hunt" is no such thing.  They do the same thing with elk. 

As for the shows... Western Extreme is nearly all tame animals and they usually don't mention it.  The now ex-CEO of Thompson Center Gregg Ritz just got busted for lying about killing tame deer on a farm in Kentucky, for TV.  Keith Warren loves killing the tame deer and usually won't fess up about the reality of his "hunts".  I think outside of the Drurys and the Eastmans guys I expect this type of crap.

To me it distorts the reality of what we do, but that's not the bad part.  The bad part is pressure it puts on young and beginning hunters.  They may quit hunting because they don't experience the sucess they see on tv.  They may not be proud of the 135" 8 point they killed because it doesn't compare to the tame deer that Keith killed.

I also think that no single issue has the power to harm real hunters than these tame animal shooting pens do.  Hunting IS NOT a right, and what we do is subject to the whim of the vast semi-ambivalent non-hunting public.  I believe the nobility of what we do is tarnished in the eye of that public everytime someone shoots an animal that can't get away.

States are starting to get in on the act.  North Dakota tried to put the issue on the ballot last fall.  Others have banned the practice already.  Lots of Western states have concerns about the health of their wild herds and the tradition real hunting represents.

[CannonKrazy]

Don't know about the place you are talking about. A big business man about 30 miles from me has farm raised bucks he lets loose at the beginning of deer season. He owns thousands of acres of land that he fenced in just for clients to hunt on. I know one of the land management guys that works there and he talks about how many deer are killed on the place each year. They kill off a number of does and smaller bucks to control the herds. His main job is to keep food plots growing year round plus keep the fences clean and mended.

[nw_hunter]

i was reading a piece aboutum....they talked like dn in texas these farms produce these farm raised bucks then sellum for up to five figures to the guide ,,and hunt package outfits.. this to supply the demand by wealthy hunters for that big racks on the wall..i sure hope everything we get to see on tv is not predominantly this type thing....ive seen a few that it seemed might be this sort of thing.... but i sure hope most of its not.. jmo slim

You can bet most is!
The outdoor programs today (Hunting & Fishing) have become nothing more than infomercials!

Jimmy Houston was involved in a canned hunt, where the deer were drugged. I think he was acquitted, but some involved were not.
I use to love the Bill Dance show, but all he does is plug the lures and fishing rods & reels.
He seldom tells where he fishes, and you can tell by the scenery and the short fat bass he catches....They are in small private lakes.

Here in SW Oregon, we have a couple of brothers that produce hunting videos in rugged eastern Oregon for Mule deer and Elk. It's like the good old days, and these are all fair chase hunts on public land.

They only have a couple of sponsors, and take turns doing the camera work.
It ain't Hollywood quality, but the films are about what hunting should be.

These boy's make me tired just watching lol! I think they have a website called On foot films.
They have produced four video's and I've bought them all, and worth every dime!

[alsaqr]

Then those wealthy "hunters" who kill those pen raised deer have the gall to enter the rack in Boone and Crockett. 

[billy_56081]

I have shot quite a few very nice deer that would make P&Y if I wanted to enter them. Heck I'm sucessful enough that I have been accused of poaching.



That being said, I really don't care what these people do, it is their money and their property. They can do what they want and it aint my buisiness.



Most people that are complaing about shooting these penned deer are the same jealous ones who say I cheat. I scout all summer and hunt 40 to 60 days a year and I really don't care what people say, that is why none of my deer have been put in the  book. 

[Skunk]

As for the shows... Western Extreme is nearly all tame animals and they usually don't mention it.  The now ex-CEO of Thompson Center Gregg Ritz just got busted for lying about killing tame deer on a farm in Kentucky, for TV.  Keith Warren loves killing the tame deer and usually won't fess up about the reality of his "hunts".  I think outside of the Drurys and the Eastmans guys I expect this type of crap.

Just curious Dukkillr (and anyone else), how do you feel about Jim Shockey and his shows? I've always come away with the feeling that his shows were based on fair chase, but I could be wrong since I really don't watch the hunting shows much anymore - basically because of the reasons you gave in your post.

[rex6666]

I have noticed that some shows, any maker start out by telling where they are hunting, what outfitter,guide,ranch, ph# and all
then the same folks in another show won't mention any of this.
Some are in the bus. of making shows, not hunting.
I guess they are trying to make a living and that is what we all
try to do.
I think they should tell the public how they are doing it, then let
us decide if we want to watch.

[dukkillr]

As for the shows... Western Extreme is nearly all tame animals and they usually don't mention it.  The now ex-CEO of Thompson Center Gregg Ritz just got busted for lying about killing tame deer on a farm in Kentucky, for TV.  Keith Warren loves killing the tame deer and usually won't fess up about the reality of his "hunts".  I think outside of the Drurys and the Eastmans guys I expect this type of crap.

Just curious Dukkillr (and anyone else), how do you feel about Jim Shockey and his shows? I've always come away with the feeling that his shows were based on fair chase, but I could be wrong since I really don't watch the hunting shows much anymore - basically because of the reasons you gave in your post.

I like Jim's shows, his writing, and I even subscribe to his news letter.  He travels to places and hunts things most never do.  When he went to South America recently to hunt Red Stag he specifically required that it not be high fence, despite that being how most of the big stags are killed there. 

He's a real hunter and a killer and he has my utmost respect.

[Skunk]

Dukkillr, Thanks for the excellent insight on Jim Shockey. I always had the feeling that he was for real.

[rockbilly]

Last week I had a conversation with a gentleman who has a high fence game ranch near San Saba, TX.  He also, at one point, owned a “Deer Farm” in Minnesota.  He was involved in cross breeding the Northern Whitetail to Texas bred deer for a larger rack.  According to him it is a very expensive endeavor and one that takes a lot of commitment once started.  He feed Purina Anther Max exclusively and has a feed bill of over $120,000. each year (22 tons of feed each month).  His ranch is 3600 acres, very little hunting is allowed, he did say they had to cull approximately 100 deer last year, but does not allow nor promote hunting in a confined area.

He had pictures of deer that would likely go well over 160 B&C and said there were even larger deer on the place.  The purpose of his ranch is to generate large deer for breeding.  They sell large amounts of sperm to other breeders, as well as ranches all over the world who want to increase the quality of their whitetailed deer herds.

I was really impressed with his method of operation, but don’t totally agree with altering what “mother nature” should be taking care of.  He said he also has elk in the same type of operation but has never personally killed an animal.  He did say his family diet consist almost entirely of venison and elk obtained through the culling process.  His operation is very labor intensive and requires daily checks to ensure the proper diet and availability of water.  He also has an abundance of wild turkey, he said there was one flock with well over a 100 birds in it.  This is due to the high fence and serious predator control

[Graybeard]

Have any of you taking the "high and mighy" position on this issue ever been to and looked at much less hunted such a large high fenced ranch to actually have a clue or are you just "assuming" what it's like?

[billy_56081]

I have hunted hogs both fenced and unfenced with archery. The easiest hog hunting was with 4 arrows outfitters on the King Ranch on free range hogs. The toughest was in an 800 acre pen ran by Jim Bob Little of Sweetwater creek  just west of Ft. Worth.  At least with hogs they are very smart and learn quickly from being hunted year round.





And ya know what, I have had a ton of fun on every single Texas hunt I have been on.

[slim rem 7]

greybeard i don t mind letting them do what ever,, its thier buisiness..but this news article was about
people raisin big bucks in protected fences,an selling them for mucho dollars,,to an outfitter who then  could turn an unhunted unwary buck  loose on his property when his does are in season...still gonna make a nice trophy ...
  but if the way these guys are doing this[an i don t know its true] hunting huge bucks,an being successful,, with enough regularity to be able to film them ever time... if they doing it by putting out semi tame deer ,,,then they are not hunting in the same sence as i am here in the wildlands of n.c.
 i believe in capitalism ,,little regulation as possible is fine with me..
  according to the report i read,,these deer farms auction them off like prized breeding bulls...
 now i can see how folks might buy one to increase poundage an rack size,,as a breeder ..
  so i gues we ll have to wait an see if this is what they are about.. but if they setting up fake hunts with shipped in deer that have been feed an conditioned to defeat thier built in defences
,,that make a big buck so hard to get... well more power toum ,,but i wouldn t want anything to do with it..the hunters not accomplishing anything compared to taking a wily old buck that lived long enough to get that rack,,despite being hunted..this jmo slim
 
 

[Swampman]

Then those wealthy "hunters" who kill those pen raised deer have the gall to enter the rack in Boone and Crockett. 

You don't even have to kill a deer to enter it's rack in the B&C book.  It can be found or bought.

[ms]

I don't have a problem with this kind of hunting. Rich and famous people can't hunt like poor people do. There also good for handicap people.

[slim rem 7]

now you do have a point there ms.. i guess it does open the door to folk who just for
 one reason or the other,,don t want ,,or arn t able,,to get into real hunting ,,an all it intales..
 i didn t for years .. i worked two jobs to make
ends meet... my wife an i didn t have time for hunting..we were  raising five kids ...doing all thier activities,,an providing for them ...
that took about everything i had,,,and more,it seemed like sometime..slim

[Hooker]

I think a lot of folks associate high fence hunting with so called caned hunts, they are nothing alike.
I have not hunted a high fence operation but, I have a friend who works at one. I go out with him to check feeders and such once in a while. The place is huge and the wildlife is wild, they are not pets or livestock. They do have a good population of deer and the bucks are way better than average.
That's what draws the hunters if you are going to pay big money to hunt deer why hunt average deer? You can do that on public land without the fees.

Pat