Author Topic: VTR in 308 (Read 1150 times)

dopinwind · « **on:** December 10, 2009, 12:50:57 PM »

Been eye'n one of these for a couple of weeks now. Does anyone around here have any first hand experience with them good or bad? I'm just wantin a 308 to shoot at the range and maybe take to the hills every now and then.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

JW307 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2009, 01:06:09 PM »

A buddy of mine bought one .223 when they first hit the market. I've shot it a few times and liked it for the most part. The new X-mark triggers aren't bad at all and the triangular barrel definitely cuts down on the weight while still maintaining a heavier contour. Accuracy is good, his will do about 1/2 moa with handloads. I'm not impressed with the stock, it's comfortable enough but it's like all of the factory composite stocks in that it's not stiff enough. The other gripe I have is with the muzzle break, it's not at all necessary on a .223 and not much more so on a .308. It seems like all it accomplishes is making the thing extra loud and its a great place for copper fouling to collect. Other than the stock (which is bearable) and the muzzle break I think it's a nice light, short, easy to pack, accurate rifle.

Jake

wareagleguy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:36:05 PM »

I have one and it is a TACK DRIVER! Now I did some bedding work on it but I don't think it was needed. I hand load for it and it LOVES the 168 VLD Burger bullets.

I know this had been pictured but here is a group I made. One shot and then made an adjustment and made another group. The rifle will do this all day long. I have taken many deer with it with three or four deer at over 350+ yards. One was close to 500. This was from a bench I have setup.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:53:32 PM »

Been around a bunch of 'em. Hit and miss, although I think that most of the misses were due to the crap stock and lack of load development/experimentation with factory ammo. Should be capable on average of MOA or a bit better with some extremes on either side (nice shooting wareagleguy).

Barrel is long enough to take the round to its fullest potential, short enough to be handy, and uglier than Marylin Quale.

Trigger is decent for the novice out of the factory, but can be taken down to a light, crisp pull in the matter of a couple of minutes.

Muzzle brake is almost more for asthetics than anything else, doesnt compete in recoil reduction compared to top of the line brands (Vias, Badger Ord., Holland, APA...etc...etc...).

Overall I'd say that they were better than a lot of other rifles out there and worth the price tag, but if it were my money I'd try to round up an SPS Tactical.

Squib · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2009, 04:00:14 PM »

I got one and like it quite a bit... never strapped it into a vise to get super-tight groups and get the sights DEAD-SET to hit a gnat's a** but never had too.... it shoots straight everytime that I do my part, it does it for five shot groups, and I'm not that consistent a shooter. make sure you get high scope mounts or a bigger aftermarket bolt handle though, because I had a problem working the bolt quick with low mounts (you might be different though). also I put an r3 recoil pad on mine- maybe that's standard now? the triangular barrel puts two/thirds of the weight at the lower end of the barrel in conjunction with the plain/ugly brake and it makes a difference. I like the slight reduction and star-trek looks. I like the recoil absorption of the rubbermade like stock (like polymer pistols, if made right they soak up the jolt some).

if you live near sedalia missouri I'll let you shoot mine, it's good to go even with a busted scope!

radar · « **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2009, 03:27:31 PM »

I bought one when they were first available. The stock is rather flimsy and has a pressure point molded into it at the end of the barrel channel. Trigger is okay, the bead blasted finish does not cover up some of the machining marks left on the outside of the barrel and the muzzle break may help some on the recoil of the 308. I put a Weaver T36 on it. The rifle I had was a 1-12 twist
I found out right quick that a round loaded to an OAL of .010 off the lands would not fit in the magazine well. To get a round to fit in the well the round was loaded to an OAL of .130 off the lands, yes quite a jump.
The barrel was broke in properly and I loaded some rounds using 155gr VMAX and Varget. Lots of vertical stringing occured. Barrel was freefloated and reciever was bedded and back to the range. No more stringing and most groups were around 1 1/2" at 100 yds.
I was not real happy with the group size and went back to the handloads. Loaded the same powder and bullet, but used the OAL of .010 off the lands. I loaded one at a time and shot some 5 shot groups that were at 1" with an occasional flier.
I changed bullet weights and went with 165gr bullets and also tried some Benchmark powder. Groups did not improve and I lost interest in the gun. Traded it in on a 700 VLS in .223 and have not looked back.

Squib · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2009, 07:26:11 PM »

1/12 twist... yeah that is an issue. was that ONLY the very first prototypes? I got one when they first came out and it is a 1/10 twist. the pressure point and barrel marks I am sorry to hear about that, probably one of the first and it slipped through qc. vls you say... which is that?

radar · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2009, 02:46:55 PM »

The 700 VLS is Varmint Laminated Stock or you can look at them on the Remington website for an actual description.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_VLS.asp
All 308 VTRs come standard with a 1-12 twist according to Remington.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_vtr.asp
The pressure point in the barrel channel is part of the molded stock and it maybe what is needed to keep the stock a little more rigid, just an opinion.
I really like the 700 VLS and she is a shooter. My deer and hog rifle is a 700 Boone and Crockett in 7mm-08, could not part with either one of them

Radar

diggler1833 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2009, 02:55:38 PM »

Besides, a 1:12 twist isn't exactly a hamper on performance, although a lot of people seem to think that it isn't fast enough for 175gr bullets. I might just be able to think hard enough and come up with some pretty proven rifles that run 1:12 twist rates.

Regardless of how much work you do to those plastic stocks short of gluing in an aluminum bedding block they will always be less consistant that a good aftermarket stock.

radar · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2009, 03:55:48 PM »

I agree with you about the rifling twist Diggler, did not mean for it to come out as a fault. I really think the stock and the long bullet jump is an issue though.
Not sure what I was thinking when I bought the VTR and ended up hating the darn thing in the end. Probably wont be my last regretted purchase either.
A short list of regrets I bought over the years: Colt Double Eagle, Daisy 22lr rifle, Sig bolt action rifle with interchangeable barrels, Ruger 77 Varmint, Colt 2000, Ithaca 22lr lever action(single shot), Kodiak 22 magnum semi auto rifle, AMT 22mag Semi Auto pistol. I can go on for a little while

Radar

Squib · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2009, 07:37:17 PM »

I called the factory a few months ago when I started handloading for my vtr and I was told that MINE (I gave them the serial #) is a 1 in 10. The operator wasn't a gun guy but told me what his screen told him when he looked it up, and he said that although 1 in 10 it's still not supposed to go beyond the 165-180grs weight for most bullet profiles. I've only tried the 165gr sierra hps... don't know about everything else. No matter though, you said you got yourself a shooter now. Good hunting.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2009, 11:10:17 PM »

Hell, with a 1:10 you might want to give some bullets in the 200gr category a try. I'd be checking out the 208 A-Max for sh!ts and grins. Might be slow out the barrel, but will still be kicking supersonic speeds well past 1K without running into pressure.

That's just me though and how I think, I'm retarded like that.

radar · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2009, 12:48:56 PM »

I dont know how it would react to a VLD bullet. Powder capacity will be limited because the bullet cannot be seated out close to the lands and you know those VLDs are long.
Could be loaded as a single shot, cant understand why Remington would put such a small magazine in a 308.

Radar

diggler1833 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:29:00 PM »

Thats just typical of Remington. By the time you are touching the lands you are generally well past the length of the magazine.

I might know of a guy or two that have had good luck with a 1:12 twist .308 and 208gr A-Max out to 1200 or so, muzzle velocity is far from scorching. Not saying that that would be the case for everyone.

Hooker · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2009, 04:28:21 PM »

Here is a great review on the VTR
http://www.snipercentral.com/vtr.htm

Pat

Squib · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:47:12 PM »

that's the dice roll of a new production gun. maybe radar has bought enough remingtons to finally get a lemon ... the law of averages and murphy's law will get you in the end. I've only had two 700's so I didn't find a lemon yet (I'd like to think it's rare from remington). I've been through a few taurus' and finally got a lemon (although it WAS used). I think that happens to anyone who buys enough from the same company- you gotta get a bad product eventually.

as for really heavy bullets I don't know. I live in sedalia so I can go get factory seconds from sierra. also I don't like heavy recoil so why go heavier? also I have a 45-70 for crushing things, my .308 is for poking. that's just me though.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2009, 02:23:55 AM »

Heavy bullets with better BC's usually poke farther with less wind drift, that's why.

radar · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2009, 05:16:34 AM »

Squib,
I did not say the gun was a lemon in my posts and never meant to imply that(did not mean to offend or send the wrong message). I am sure that the rifle meets factory specs including accuracy.
The only shortcomings I seen with my rifle was the short magazine well and the stock. The magazine is set up for factory ammo, not for some goofball like me to put reloads in. The stock is garbage

(my opinion).
Remington advertises the VTR as "the new Model 700™ Varmint-Tactical Rifle (VTR™) is a revolutionary system optimized for extended-range precision and mobility" and it may well be, but I lost interest in the gun and moved it along.
My preference for firearms are different than other folks, I like accurate guns that are easy to load for and easy on the eyes. Wood stocks and deep blue always catches my eyes over the dull black guns. Only two foreign made guns in my safes are a Browning shotgun and a Browning SA-22.
So you can see I like "Made in USA" things and traditional looking guns. As I posted earlier I do not know what I was thinking when I bought the VTR.

Radar

Squib · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2009, 11:13:17 AM »

the star trek look is the only reason I even considered it... I liked if after shooting it but the funkiness bought me. I grew up in the days of ninja turtles and star trek not john wayne so I am not a walnut guy. I suppose if I could afford $2,000 or more for a rifle I would be though, I do like FANCY wood but I'm too poor to even attempt to get it. there is a vtr with a $500 bell and carlson stock, and the triangular barrel is much longer. that one is supposed to be a tack-driver. anyone got one of them? I've wondered how that fancy stock would perform, and if the barrel harmonics dampening effect would work on a much longer barrel.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2009, 04:56:40 PM »

You are referring to the Tactical Target. It has the 1:11.25" twist and 5R rifling and is a bit overpriced IMO. I had a 5R (getting rebarreled right now) and I dropped it into a McMillan A4 stock for about $1300 total after I sold off the HS Precision stock. Much better deal if you go that way. The Bell and Carlson is adjustable, however I don't personally believe their quality to be in the same league as McMillan, Manners, AICS, McCrees etc... And besides, anything over about 22" really isn't too necessary with a .308.

Best way to figure out how stuff like that performs is to check to see how many guys are running that particular setup in sniper comps.

Squib · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2009, 08:58:46 PM »

I checked out the website to look up vtr info... it lists vtr's as 1 in 10 twist so either my tech guy was wrong or my gun is from a special run/test group. yes, $1600 is a lot for a fancied up model 700- WOW! even eleven hundred is too much in my opinion. like I said before though, I am poor so that affects my perception of gun stuff.