777 really any better?

[flmason]

Given that one needs to reduce the top load of 777 to get back down to black powder pressure levels, is there really any point to 777 over black or pyrodex?

I mean, you can get higher velocities from less powder, but in the end, the pressure limit of the gun should (along with the pressure curve of he powder) end up limiting my ultimate performance, true?

OK, in Cap and Ball revolvers, since the chambers are of a limited length, maybe you can squeeze a little more velocity out, but with a rifle, 130 gr. of 777 or approx 150 of Pyrodex or black, is there really any difference?

Granted, 777 is supposed to clean easier (which I question of the slag ring deposits are common and inescapable), and Pyrodex is supposedly more corrosive... almost makes a case with rifles for just using regular ol' black?

[coop2564]

Not everyone tries to milk a magnum load. If you stay under magnum loads and use same measured amounts T7 has many advantages mainly velocity and cleanest except for the ring. Using 100grs I could always get a accurate 2nd hunting shot if needed w/o swabbing but that was it the crud ring would make it to hard to load a 3rd and if I did get it my accuracy would be off slightly on a 3rd. But in hunting it never hurt me never needed that 3rd. At the range they both need elbow grease and cleaning. So all in all T7 IMO does give a real advantage. Now BlackHorn Has a advantage over them all if it will work with your gun design, clean, fast, no swabbing, its Much more fun at least at the range for me.

[flmason]

True as far as the velocities go. I don't feel the need to put 150 gr. of black in, based on the velocity data I've seen. Figure 100 would be more than enough for most uses.

So my feeling was, since 777 has to be reduced by 15%... at the extreme end you don't get any additional velocity over pyrodex, and the crud ring can occur. So next thought was, "So why'd I buy a pound of 777 anyway, since it won't give me more velocity with less peak pressure?"

Answer? Because I hadn't thought out the reality of the "higher velocity" claim.

OK, you get more velocity per powder volume, but not a higher possible velocity. If I had to guess, since it gives more velocity with less powder, it's probably hotter... thus more damaging to the barrel over a lifetime of use. So on second thought I'm having a hard time convincing myself I made the right choice, other than it might let me "magnumize" the revolver I initially bought it for. With the revolvers you have a limited chamber size to work with that's not an issue with the rifles.

So, guess I'm going to have to price some BH209. I've read it's rather pricey. 

Anyway, my personal interest in velocity is the trajectory, as opposed to thinking I need "more power". BP rifles certainly did their job back in the day. Having a smokeless background as a point of reference though, guess I fall prey to thinking their trajectories are problematic.

[ronbow]

I switched from Pyrodex to 777 and glad I did. There is no comparison to the cleanup - 777 wins by a long shot. I can get at least 5 shots (never tried more) out of my 2 TCs (Omega X7 and Black Mountain Mag.) with all in the bulls eye. I also use 777 in my ROA.

[flmason]

I switched from Pyrodex to 777 and glad I did. There is no comparison to the cleanup - 777 wins by a long shot. I can get at least 5 shots (never tried more) out of my 2 TCs (Omega X7 and Black Mountain Mag.) with all in the bulls eye. I also use 777 in my ROA.

Wow, seems results and opinions with 777 are all over the map. Well, guess I'll just have to burn the pound of it I have and see how it goes.

[Double 30]

I am a fan of T7 and have happily used it for years.As my rifle uses musket caps for ignition I get no crud ring and when I used to shoot Variflames with small pistol primers 3f gave only a slight ring and 2f gave none.Wierd I know...
  Recently I have gone to shooting Swiss black powder.Balistically its more consistent( velocity) than T7 and as I swab between shots clean up is a non issue.In my Black Diamond XR .50 , Swiss is also more accurate than T7.I do not shoot heavy charges, 90 gr( black) is the most I'll pour down bore ( under a .45 non mag 300XTP in Harvester crush ribs she'll keep MOA with that one at 1600 fps)Where T7 really shines is economy.70 gr of black weighs 70 gr, 70 of T7( by volume), weighs about 45gr so you get ALOT more shots per pound.That is a powerful incentive to use it in iteslf.never shot Pyro.Never will, it is nasty to steel...My preference is Swiss black and Triple 7.Cant lose with either! 

[flmason]

Wow, really, 50% lighter for the T7 by wieght. Didn't realize it was that spectacular of a difference. (Don't have a powder scale handy these days.)

When I bought it to try in my '58 Remington I bought into the velocity thing, cleanup was secondary. Used Pyrodex for years in a Navy Colt and had no complaints really.

Learned of the crud ring issue secondarily as I'm trying to pick a cost effective BP rifle. Pretty much trying to educate myself on the new powders.

For some reason Hodgdon has not responded to an email asking, "How do I choose between Pyrodex and 777?". That's a little disheartening. Especially since they don't really seem to publish anything that really tells in detail, what the design differences and intentions were.

Seems like a writeup for making that choice should be out there. But then I guess having everyone try a pound of both might be more profitable, LOL!