Author Topic: 475lb or 500wyo??? (Read 2497 times)

benny · « **on:** March 19, 2009, 05:30:12 AM »

contemplating an 83 in one of these, a big brother to my 97 41mag. is there really much difference in the performance between the two? i get the frontal area vs sectional density comparison, but i would imagine that with a 420 in the lb and a 440 in the fa they are both going to shoot through just about anything. so does it jsut come down to personal preference at this point?

i would want to work up to moderate loads, heavy bullet at maybe 1100fps. is there much difference in recoil at these levels and below?

i like the fact that the 500 is a fa cartridge, have been happier with my 97 than any gun EVER, but a little nervous about if it will stick around. Not as well established as the 475 maybe???

this would be my first BIG bore and used for game such as hogs / bear.

thanks for any thoughts and thanks for the great forum!

benny

BigMuddy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2009, 08:25:26 AM »

Not a lot of practical differences, and you have noted most of them already. Recoil with the loads you described are not different, and performance is not either. It comes down to what do you want.

I have not used the 500 on game, but have the 475. I doubt you would find an animal that would know the difference. I am sure there are some here who have hunted with both that can chime in.

I have read and believe that you will reach a limit on recoil with the 500 before you reach a limit on what the gun can do. They are STOUT! As you noted though you can load them down.

Both are great guns/cartridges. I have read that the 475 can have deeper penetration, but can't speak to that with experience.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2009, 02:00:23 AM »

500 wy is a great round actually. I kind of bridges the larger metplat of the 500 lin. and the penetration of the 475. I guess though if i had to pick one it would be the 475 just because components and molds are easier to come accross. Ive got a FA 475 and a 454. I would love a 50we but just cant afford it but would trade the 454 off in a heartbeat to get one.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:14:39 PM »

I've used both a pretty good bit, but have taken much more game with the .475. In truth, there's not a lot of practical difference between the two. Both can kill anything on earth, and I like and will continue to use both.
I slightly prefer the .475 Linebaugh, but would be hard put to say why it's better. Cast bullets and molds are readily available for both. I personally consider 400-420 gr. optimum in the .475 Linebaugh. With jacketed bullets, the .475 400 gr. Hornady XTP is outstanding.
There is not a comparably excellent 400-420 gr. jacketed .500 bullet available that will readily fit in the WE cylinder; the 350 gr. XTP is the best jacketed option, and although it's quite tough, it does lack the sectional density of a .475 400 XTP. Several cast options running 400-440 gr. are readily available in .500.
I emphasize that much of this sd difference is of little consequence in the field. Everything I've hit with each has promptly fallen over dead.

So here's my advice: Buy the .475. Then immediately start saving for the .500 WE...and then buy it, too.

heike · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2009, 09:49:36 PM »

I have seen a bullet,Sierra sportsmaster 400gr jsp.

Do you think it"s too "big" for FA 500 we sylinder?

fowler · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2009, 04:35:11 AM »

I would have to ask 2 questions up front to help decide between the two. 1: Do you reload? There are a lot more options out there and for somewhat less expense in the 475 than the 500WE in factory loads. 2: Are you a cast bullet shooter or a jacketed bullet shooter? If you cast then they are 100% equal, order a LBT mold or two and shoot to your hearts content (I figured out that comparing my cast bullets to Cast Performance bullet it takes about 300 bullets to pay for a mold and Star sizer if you cast already, if you don't start!). As Ken pointed out neither has a lot of jacket bullet options but there is no outstanding bullet offered for the 500WE except perhaps the 350 XTP listed earlier, but they get very expensive to shoot. At $38.00 for 50 475 400gr XTP bullets confirmed I am a exclusive cast bullet shooter in my 475. I will say that 500WE brass is 2 to 3 times the price of 475 brass but once they are purchased they will both last through dozens of reloads.

A buddy got a 4 3/4" 500WE last year and I got 4 3/4" 475 and it has been interesting to shooting them side by side. For recoil with equal loads they are impossible to tell apart. Now my buddies gun is a round butted gun and I really like the feel and recoil of the round butt compared to my standard grip, I may send my grip frame off and get it round butted but I have not decided yet. I need to shoot them side by side a little more first.

I would say if you reload develop a couple levels of loads to shoot, a standard pleasant to shoot load, and mid level North American hunting load, and a max power stomp anything on earth load. The latter is only because if you by the gun everyone will feel the need to at east have one of those loads developed. My standard load for my 475 is a 375gr LFNPB at 950fps, pleasant accurate, and cheap to shoot with my casting the bullets. My standard hunting bullets is a 425gr WLNPB at 1100fps (I would not hesitate to hunt elk with the 375 bullet at the same speed), I will probably get a different 425gr LFNGC mold that should be more accurate, this same bullet can be pushed to over 1350fps if you want to try that fun (I have for exactly 10 rounds out of 1700 rounds or so that have gone through that gun in the year I have owned it). You don't have to push these big bullet hard to be effective hunting bullets, Gregg pushed his 500WE with a 425gr LFNPB bullet to 1075fps and shot through 45" of mule deer last fall (in rear hip and drove it out the opposite side front shoulder) with decisive results.

Have fun as both guns are fun and you can not lose between the two. I like the 475L a little better but not for any reason that I can voice well, I think part of it is I wanted a 475 for years before the 500WE even existed. Enjoy...

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2009, 06:21:36 AM »

heike,
The 400 Sierra will fit, but just barely. When I tested the .500WE when it was first introduced, several bullets, including the XTP, were more accurate anyway.
I want at least a few thousandths between the nose of the bullet and the front of the cylinder, to allow for a bit of bullet creep, just in case. The Sierras didn't allow for that, so I have rejected their use after those initial tests. I'd like to see the cannelure moved more toward the nose, then maybe....

heike · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2009, 07:09:40 AM »

Thanks Ken ONeill.

Sorry for my poor writing.I dont speak or write english.

Have you ever tested those Cast Performance 440gr 500caliber?

I was wondering if those will be still to long for the cylinder?

It has became a problem for us to find bullets over "here" in the 500 caliber.

benny · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2009, 01:57:11 PM »

thanks for the info guys. i have to admit the 475 does look like the way to go at this time over the 500 with bullet choices. hopefully that will change... yes, i reload, but i do not cast my own bullets. i shoot both cast performance and jacketed of various types. one thing i am considering is the usability of a solid copper barnes xtp in the gun if that would be necessary in a no lead hunting area. this would certainly be a rarity, but it still a consideration for me. i don't think either the 475 or the 500 have enough cylinder length to work with the barnes bullets, but the 454 does. Maybe I'll look into that cartridge as well as I imagine the 360gr or 395gr cast performance slug slug would do pretty well as a heavy. I hear the recoil velocity is a little faster with the 454 but I imagine with moderate loads it would be substantially less than the 475 or 500. Would this be correct?

thanks again.

benny

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2009, 02:04:10 AM »

recoil is definately less with the 454. Still not mild by any imagination though. I cant see why they would work in the 454 and not the 475 or 500. All the cylinders are the same lenght and so are the cases. What you could do though for hunting in those areas is load them in 480 brass for the 475 or 45 colt brass in the 454 or even trim your 50we brass enough to make them fit.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2009, 04:17:46 AM »

heike,
Yes the 440 gr. Cast Performance Bullet Works gas checked bullet will fit in the .500 WE cylinder.
Lloyd makes a good point. If one is willing to trim WE brass enough, you can make most any .500 bullet fit in the cylinder. In fact I considered doing so, when the cartridge was introduced, but I'm WAY too lazy for that !

benny · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:55:20 AM »

i think the length isuue with the barnes is probably due to barnes making the bullets for the 480 ruger and the 500 s&w so their crimp to nose length is longer than the bullet that is specifically made for the 454. using 480 brass would be the easy fix for the 475. as far as trimming brass for the 500, i have no experience doing that, sticking to standard length brass so far, although i did consider doing it for my 41 to use the 230gr keith bullets. how do you determine loads for shortened brass as case volume has changed? not sure i want to experiment that much. who knows, maybe by the time i save my shekels up there will be new bullets that will work in the wyo and this won't be an issue...

thanks again guys!

benny

benny · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:28:32 AM »

Hey, how about this idea... a belt mtn. punch bullet left solid brass, instead of milled out and filled with lead to use, in "no-tox" areas??? I wonder how much weight you would loose by doing this, if it is even possible. even a loss of 100gr would leave you with 320 which would be heavier than the 275gr xpb in either the 475lb or 500. Might have to e-mail belt mtn about this one...

Sweetwater · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:51:05 AM »

If the day for me to own a Freedom Arms revolver ever arrives, the choice will be simple for me. I'm a sucker for most anything connected with Wyoming, therefore, the .500 Wyoming Express, unless, they make a series of Wyoming Express cartridges between now and then. Choices, always choices.

Regards,
Sweetwater

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2009, 10:22:45 AM »

Picking the .500WE because it has "Wyoming" in it's name is as good a reason as any to pick it over its near performance twin, the .475 Linebaugh.

Of course, John Linebaugh IS in Cody, so....

Sweetwater · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2009, 07:19:59 PM »

Good Point!

Regards,
Sweetwater

Axehandle · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2009, 08:33:24 AM »

There was a time when I thought I could choose.... Time has proven that I can't and I already had a pair of FA 475s so Gallagher is making me a Ruger 500L and a Ruger 475L

FWIW The CP 440 WFN in the 500WE FA helped me understand "jumping crimp." Removing the cartridge from the cylinder the bullet has not visibly moved in the case... However, when the cylinder will rotate before firing a round and then will not rotate after something has moved. The little ridge left by the bullet mold is all that hangs on the barrel... Doesn't take much in a FA...

stevejr454 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2009, 05:54:24 AM »

Benny not sure if price, and the amount of options are a factor or not, but there is a 475L. 7 1/2" octagon barrel, ported, 480 Ruger cylinder, black micarta grips along with standard premier grade grips and also has sling studs in barrel, and bottom of grip. I thought about getting in on the GunBrker auction myself for a 1500.00 opening bid. But I have my eye on something else.

Here is the URL Address for the auction. http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=126701906

Good luck if you decide to bid on her. Stevejr454

jwp475 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2009, 05:27:00 PM »

The 500 WE is nothing more than the 500 JRH with a belt instead of a rim. I have a 500 JRH in a FA 83 and I like it a lot. Buffalo Bore loads the factory loads for the JRH. BFR chambers the 500 JRH and if the 500 JRH ever fails to remain a factory loaded round cases can be made by shortening 500 S&W cases and turning the rim down to smaller diameter. How would one find a case to make a 500 WE from... You will not

Axehandle · « **Reply #19 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:04:57 AM »

Two 475 FAs, Two 50AE FAs, a 500WE FA and my life was still not complete... So now I have a 500L on the way in from Idaho and John Gallagher whipping up a second one.... Why stop at .501 When you can go .511 ?

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #20 on:** August 06, 2009, 12:26:35 PM »

Still hoping you'll tire of that 4 3/4" 50AE, and send it to Hickory so I can give it a proper pair of shoes, front sight, and perhaps some other stuff.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #21 on:** August 07, 2009, 12:43:07 AM »

your idea is good but illegal. If made from solid brass it is consider a cop killing bullet. Thats why kelly redesigned his original bullet and put the lead core and the tiny hp in it. It acutally made it a better bullet. It is a bit heavier and the weight is toward the back where it should be. It penetrates as well as his orignal solid and is more accurate to boot.

Quote from: benny on March 23, 2009, 05:28:32 AM

Hey, how about this idea... a belt mtn. punch bullet left solid brass, instead of milled out and filled with lead to use, in "no-tox" areas??? I wonder how much weight you would loose by doing this, if it is even possible. even a loss of 100gr would leave you with 320 which would be heavier than the 275gr xpb in either the 475lb or 500. Might have to e-mail belt mtn about this one...

Axehandle · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2009, 08:16:24 AM »

Ha! You boys are going to shame me into sending that gun to FA for micarta and a 500WE cylinder.... In fact I asked my FFL to contact FA last week about setting up a dealer connection... Seriously have considered sending it to Jack Huntington to become a 500JRH....