The Different Types of Conicals and Lube?

[flmason]

Hi All,
   Sorry for the massive flurry of questions. In the past, was always a cap and ball fan when it came to muzzleloaders. The idea of a rifle other than the Pa. or Hawken type is new to me. Patched ball is about all I have any prior knowledge of. That being said...

I was reading some posts in the Traditional section. Someone mentioned a custom barrel they had with the fast twist for conicals... they also mentioned Great Plains bullets... So off to Google I went...

Looks like the Great Plains bullets only have what I'd call a cannelure... are they expected to hold lube therein? Are there conical designs that are for use without lube?  (Seems like the R.E.A.L. might be one of these, but not certain of it.)

Of side merit.... the Great Plains bullets look like a cross between a Keith Type and a SWC... interesting, to say the least.

Can anyone point me to ballistics and/or reccomendations on bullet weights for .50 caliber loads? I'm trying to get a handle on what my basic "all around" loading will be. Without having done any shooting yet, I'm leaning toward the 300+ gr. bullet weight and 100 gr. BP or equivalent energy level in a sub. (Probably go with 777 at the moment, though I could be talked out of it by a convincing argument.)

[Busta]

The lube is to help prevent leading of the bore. It is desired when shooting full bore lead conicals.

Personally, I would stear clear of the Great Plains, just too many other good bullets out there to use those IMO. The Great Plains/Buffalo Bullets are of hollow point, hollow base construction. It just doesn't leave a lot of bullet integrity between these hollow cavities. In my testing, these bullets ring out when encountering hard mass. Pure lead bullets do not need a hollow point to expand, especially when hunting big game. Sure these bullets have worked in the past, but there is NO WAY I would be caught in the elk woods with one in my rifle.

A good solid pure lead conical without a hollow point or hollow base can be sized to the bore, load like a dream, and hit like the hammer of Thor!

777 is a very good powder for shooting full bore conicals, either the FFG or FFFG work well.

[flmason]

You mention something interesting. 777 in FFFg for rifles. How does that affect the amount of powder used, considering FFg is more typical.

Oh... BTW, I have a similar vintage GTA (1987) as your IROC, LOL!

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

And speaking of Thor  LOL,

These are Thor Bullets.  Based on the pure copper sabot from barnes. These are a full bore diameter Conical.

[Busta]

You mention something interesting. 777 in FFFg for rifles. How does that affect the amount of powder used, considering FFg is more typical.

Oh... BTW, I have a similar vintage GTA (1987) as your IROC, LOL!

777 FFG should be reduced 15%, 777 FFFG should be reduced around 20% for equal velocities as compared to Black Powder or Pyrodex.

In other words 85 gr 777 FFG, 80 gr 777 FFFG by VOLUME should give you very similar velocities to 100 gr FFG Black Powder or Pyrodex RS (FFG) by VOLUME.

My car is a '86, she will be an antique in a couple more years. She is 23 in that picture. Those GTA's are very nice!

[flmason]

Thanks for the info Busta. Have some Lee Dippers here, so I can pretty much easily measure any reasonable increments by volume. I still kinda wonder how bad 777 is on barrels though. That extra performance makes me wonder if it's hotter (a la Bullseye) or longer and more progressive (a la Hercules 2400).

Yeah, my GTA is the first year '87. Only 25 K miles on it. Has the 5.7 'vette engine in it. Have to say, it always puts a grin on my face. Sorta a poor man's 308 GTS, LOL!