Author Topic: 45 Colt for hunting eastern whitetail (Read 3097 times)

irold · « **on:** August 09, 2009, 03:15:36 AM »

Morning Gentlemen ,

I'm interested in using my 7 1/2" 454 SRH with 45C to hunt this year. I'm using Hornady 250 XTPS........my question, What velocity should I load them to ? According to the three manuals I load with , I can get anywhere from 750 to 1200 FPS. I understand a "cowboy load" load will work with ideal shot placement , however I hunt in the real world where the perfect shot isn't always perfect. If I'm off a smidge.......will a 250XTP break and go through a whitetails shoulder at 1000 to 1100 FPS ? I prefer to use the XTP over the hardcast...I like the semi-jacket for hunting. I do use a 255gr Keith style SWC pushed at around 1000 FPS for target and plinking...it has a tendancy to lead pretty bad after a couple dozen rounds. Thanks

regards irold

jlwilliams · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2009, 03:52:49 AM »

I don't have a specific load to reccomend, but it seems axiomatic that the fastest load that groups well is what you want.

The 44magnum is the pistol round with the greatest following among hunters. Given that you are using a good gun that can take the pressure, and that the 45lc can be loaded verry similarly to the 44 magnum you should come to a satisfactory load.

irold · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:18:28 AM »

Thanks for your reply , not looking for a specific load. I tend not to rely on "forum loads" , too many typos or memory lapses. I have and do listen to general information , like powder suggestions or bullet types , etc.

I do have several 44 mags that I hunt with, just never shot anything with the SRH yet...I shoot the 45C a little better than the 454...probably one of those mental things. Was hoping for a suggestion for velocity....obviously faster would be better...guess I'm looking for "pleasant shooting" whitetail data. If I can stay around 950 - 1000 , that would be great. But I don't want to lose my deer if that less than perfect shot happens. thanks

kynardsj · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:30:36 AM »

Go to Hodgdon's or Alliant's website and check out their reloading data. IMHO a healthy dose of 4227 in those 45LC's should do the job. Also with your gun being a SRH and chambered for the 454, hot or not so hot 45LC's won't be a problem. If you stay between 1000 to 1200 fps with those 250 gr pills and take shots within the range limitations you won't have a problem. Just know that a lot of the loads listed on the websites mentioned are going to be way below what your SRH can handle safely. Good luck.

Ole Man Dan · « **Reply #4 on:** August 09, 2009, 08:08:33 AM »

Irold;

Several years ago I switched from heavy,fast .44 loads to moderate .45 loads. I can't honestly say that there is much difference in the field... (Most of my shots are inside 75 yds) I've shot several deer with Hornady XTP loads. I had my best performance with these when I shot thru the ribs at about 1000 to 1100fps. I switched to 265 WFN/GC hard cast and raised my velocity to the neighborhood of 1100 to 1200fps and now I shoot to break bones. (Shoulder shots) I now shoot the 265s for everything from practice to hunting.

I now also load most of my .44mag. loads with WFN Hardcast at moderate velocities.

When I switched to Hard Cast it was because an animal don't always cooperate and I sometimes have a poor angle and need more penetration.

(Like the pilot W/O a chute I'm still saying... 'So far so good...' )

Bigeasy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 09, 2009, 09:31:29 AM »

Irold

The XTP was one of the original controled expansion handgun bullets, and is never a bad choice. When I am using a jacketed bullet in a handgun for big game, the XTP is my go to bullet. Realize that expansion limits bullet penetration. Thats one of the reasons a hard cast bullet penetrates so well, it trades expansion for penetration. On really big game, I believe a bullet with a sharp cutting profile and deep penetration is warrented. On a whitetail, and expanding bullet works just fine, as long as you stay away from something like a 180 HP at ultra high velocity. That 250grn XTP at about 1200fps should be a relative easy shooting load in that heavy Ruger. It will provide a good balance of penetration and expansion in a 150 - 220 lbs animal. I have taken 8 or 10 whitetails with this load, or the similar 44 mag load, with very good results. It will usually offer complete penetration on broadside rib / lung shots, and is sometimes recovered on shoulder shots, with good expansion. If you are worried about penetration, but still want some expansion, you might want to look at the XTP 300grn bullet at the same velocity. The only down side would be a little more recoil. By the way, as others have stated, that 454 Ruger will safely handle any published 45 long colt load.

Larry

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** August 09, 2009, 10:33:18 AM »

Irold: in the first place your target and plinking load is more than adequate for eastern whitetail. I always prefer a shoulder shot when pistol hunting and use heavy hardcast square faced slugs at moderate velocities and haven't lost one yet, whether I've missed the shoulder and shot through the chest or busted on through the shoulder and out the other side.

Second, with my preferences aside, the 250 gn XTP within the velocity range you referenced or even dropped to 1000-1100'/sec is a excellent choice. Will it bust on through a shoulder - It should penetrate sufficiently and Bigeasy has good luck with his loadings using that bullet. It should work well for you.

varmitbob · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2009, 02:44:30 PM »

I use hornady 240xtp MAG with Hodgdon Titegroup powder @ 1368 fps it works great on deer. It is close enough to my other loads that I can use the same zero. Very mild recoil also.

Autorim · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:03:27 PM »

I have been testing loads in my .45's. As things stand now, I plan to use a 265 grain WFNGC with 20.0 grains of IMR 4227 for a hunt load. I have not chronoed it yet, but fully expect it to do the job. I shoot everything from 5.0 grains of Trail Boss, up to 10.0 grains of Unique and then move up to 2400 and 4227. They all shoot very well.

irold · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:38:17 PM »

Thanks guys.........sounds like a plan....I'll try to load em around 11 to 12 FPS, see where that takes me. I'll let ya know, and post pics ...I hope. Thanks again

irold

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:03:43 AM »

A Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk or Super Redhawk can use "Ruger Only" loads from the Hornady Manuals without problem. I have used 19.5 gr. of 2400 and CCI 350 Magnum primers to drive a 250 XTP @ about 1300 fps for years. It is excellent on Whitetails and similar sized game.

EdK · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:21:35 PM »

Since you are handloading is there some reason why you don't just load your 454 brass with those XTPs to the 45 Colt/Ruger only levels?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2009, 12:48:02 PM »

IMHO, Your bullet choice will serve you well.
Now I haven't used the 250's much but have sent many boxes of the 300Gr variety down the tubes of a number of 45calibers. I wouldn't be hung up on velocity, load it to anything over 1000/1100 and head to the range, find what ever shoots best in your gun use that.

Personally, I prefer the heavier bullet. 1200fps is what I'm getting in my 7.5 barrel, I use 296/H110 and a CCI 350mag primer. Hunting loads get new brass (Fully prepped and trimmed to uniform) and finished with a good firm roll crimp. I have used this same load for many many years in revolvers, rifles and carbines all with equally excellent results.

CW

irold · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:41:37 PM »

Edk ,

I have thought of that.....I just don't know how low I can go. I understand some powders can't be played with too much. My 454 load consists of a healthy dose of 296 under a 240 XTP/MAG......according to the manuals I can only go down a couple grins with 296. I've loaded with 2400 also , as of now I'm way under the manual for starting loads for the 454.........can I load 45C loads in the 454 cases ? I've reloaded for many years.....but always stuck to published data...didn't do much experimenting. Thanks

osceola · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:17:13 PM »

I have found this bullet in the .451, 225gr XPB to be very accurate and a wound channel similar to a mix-master.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/pistol/

TGFOGAL · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:49:46 PM »

Hi
TrailBoss is made for low pressure low speed, it's great for 800 to 1100 fps.
Check out the loading data on their web site.
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Tom

Bigeasy · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:31:49 PM »

Irold

I use Win 296 all the time for heavy handgun loads. Fine powder, but it is NOT for reduced loads. You want a faster powder like Unique, as an example. Look for reduced / mid range loads in a good reloading manual that covers both the 454 and 45 lc. Using 45lc cases is fine, like a 38spl in a 357. Just run a brush thru the chambers every once in a while to avoid carbon build up that might make it hard to chamber 454's.

Larry

irold · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2009, 03:42:21 PM »

Larry , Thats pretty much the way I've been loading also. I use 296 for the 44 also. Generally I use three manuals (Hornady , Speer, and Lymans handgun manual ) to compare loading data , then make my decision on what to try from that . My "go to " load for the 454 is the 296 under the 240 XTP/MAG......I've been using 2400 along with the 240 XTP/MAG as a reduced load, I'm down a good bit under the "starter" loads and its still far and above a "heavy" 45C load. As most everyone has suggested , I'll load that 250 XTP to around 1150 FPS, in my 45 C cases and see how that works. Thanks to all..........regards, irold

TGFOGAL · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2009, 02:12:45 PM »

Lil'Gun is not not sensitive to light charges.
Ammoguide's load data for the s&w 500 shows 20grs with a 350 cast.
I've been using 20grs with 400gr cast and jsp, it gives about 1050fps.
Good shooting load.

350 Cast RCBS Hodgdon Lil'Gun
20.0gr
1199fps
1117ft-lbs

Catshooter45 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2009, 05:18:57 PM »

irold,

If those Keiths are leading at that velocity, (assuming they aren't pure lead and thus too soft) then chances are they are too small for the bore. They shouldn't be leading. I shoot a .45 Colt (rifle) with that same bullet at 1570 fps with no leading no matter how many rounds I shoot. That's with wheel weight metal.

In my .45-70 I shoot a 365 grain cast at 1600 fps out of half wheel weights/half pure lead and get no leading but that right on the edge. Technically, that load should lead but I got lucky.

Cat

irold · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2009, 09:25:24 AM »

Cat

I just went down and mic'ed my cast bullets before I replied to ya . The 255gr Keith style are marked .452 on the box...they mic out at .454. Some are .4535, but most are pretty true at .454. I also use a bullet from Hunters Supply, their 275 gr cast...supposed to be .452 also...they mic at .453 plus or minus .0005. You say if I'm leaden up my bullets are too small ?? The 275 gr from Hunters Supply don't seem to lead near as bad as the 255s. As far as hardness goes.......only way I have to check them is the "thumb nail" test.......both seem equally hard. Thanks for your feed-back.

regards, irold

catboat · « **Reply #21 on:** October 25, 2009, 04:10:47 AM »

Quote from: irold on August 09, 2009, 03:15:36 AM

Morning Gentlemen ,

I do use a 255gr Keith style SWC pushed at around 1000 FPS for target and plinking...it has a tendancy to lead pretty bad after a couple dozen rounds.

Even though you have cast bullets .453-.454" (larger than the bore diameter of .~452"), don't forget the impact of small diameter throats.

Rugers are notorius to have small cylinder throats (part of the cylinder chambering that the bullet leaves, to go into the barrel/forcing cone). I have a Ruger Redhawk that has .449" throats. Small throats serve as a sizing die, reducing the bullet diameter just before a bullet goes into the barrel/forcing cone. So, your "large diameter" cast bullets of .453+" will potentially get sized down to your cylinder throat diameter (perhaps down to .449"), which is smaller than your bore diameter. This condition, a "small diameter" (.449-.450") lead bulllet, going down an "oversize" (.451-.452") bore doesn't create a good gas seal-and as a result leading can definitely occur-as you are experiencing.

Accuracy can suffer too, if the throats are not the same diameter. I have a Ruger gp100 357 mag 4" barrel revolver that would shoot 4-5" groups with a good "properly sized" cast bullets at 25 yards. I measured my throats, and found diameters from .354" TO .356". I sent the cylinder to the cylindersmith.com, and had throats opened to a uniform .357". The GP100 now shoots 6 shot, 1.5" round groups at 25 yards with the same load.

I'm sending my Redhawk 45 colt to him next, to open them to .4525" http://www.cylindersmith.com/.

Sometimes the barrel diameter within the frame (where the threads are) can result in a smaller diameter. It's been fairly common to hear that Ruger cranks in the barrel in fitting, which can squeeze the bore diameter down a bit. It has been remedied by fire lapping (grit impregnated cast bullets) to open up the tight spot on the barrel. I haven't run into this issue myself, but keep it in mind as a second thing to consider, as it serves as another way the soft cast bullet can be altered in diameter during the firing process to cause inaccuracy and leading.

Check your throat diameter. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a contributing issue to your leading woes.