Author Topic: Powder Measure Scale (Read 795 times)

Marine Dad · « **on:** August 13, 2009, 01:52:11 AM »

Is there a chart, list, something out there for the correct amount of powder charge per caliber of Cannon?
I know it would change per Grain of the powder, but I haven't found anything as far as a chart or a rule of thumb (If there is such a thing) for a charge size.

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2009, 02:09:59 AM »

Have you looked at our stickies at the top of the forum...look for the one called safe loads and cannon plans. The rule of thumb and chart you ask about is there.

Marine Dad · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2009, 02:18:08 AM »

Thank you.
I searched all over last night.
Problem is, I see something and get interested in and read and read.
Then I realize it an hour later and I haven't even looked.
Got to keep on track, ignore the other goodies.

dan610324 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2009, 02:33:27 AM »

I read long ago on a german site that they recomended 0,15 - 0,20 gram per caliber millimeter in cannons up to 20 millimeter caliber

Marine Dad · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2009, 02:49:14 AM »

Ok,
Check my math for me please.
I figure this is the MAX load

Using the Table in N-SSA
I see a 2" Bore max would be 4 oz.
I conclude that to be 2 oz per inch of bore
2 times 0.70 (My Bore), would be 1.4 oz Max. load.

0.69 lead round ball would be 495 grains, or 1.03 oz.

Right?

dan610324 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2009, 03:00:10 AM »

thats pretty much in such a small caliber, DANGEROUS MUCH, do you want to fill the bore completely ??

I WOULD RECOMEND YOU TO START WITH 3,5 GRAM ( approximately 50 grains )

Marine Dad · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2009, 03:53:08 AM »

I have never shot a ball from the cannon.
I was told for a Salute 120 grains was fine.
That is what I have been firing

thelionspaw · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:07:38 AM »

You may be in the right church but the wrong pew. Wait for someone to come foward who actually has what you have and be guided by a voice of experience.

rc

Double D · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:11:13 AM »

Keep looking, there is a chart for bores with a diameter below 2 inch.

Also note that these reference give you MAXIMUM loads.

The small caliber chart is from Matt Switlik's book The More Complete Cannoneer. He gives further guidance in his book by say start with loads ridiculously low. That is seriously good advice.

Southpaw used this advice and when he developed the loads for his bowling ball mortar. The results were very interesting. First load was 1 oz. The ball went 20 yards. His next load was 2 oz and the ball went about 140 yards. 3 oz. sent the ball close to 400 yards.

The point, incremental increase should also be small. It doesn't take much to achieve a big increase.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:11:37 AM »

Quote from: Marine Dad on August 13, 2009, 03:53:08 AM

I have never shot a ball from the cannon.
I was told for a Salute 120 grains was fine.
That is what I have been firing

I used to re-enact the American Revolution, using a 69 caliber musket our blank loads were 75 gains in a paper cartridge,
some of that was used for priming so the actual load may have been 60 grains out of a much longer barrel than you are using,

just as an example I used to fire a 69 cal. smooth bore carbine with 45 grains of 2fg and hit consistantly a paper dinner plate at

100 yrds. sometimes more powder is not the answer...... it is better to go light and work up an accurate load than go big and never
hit what you aim at.

intoodeep · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:39:33 AM »

Marine Dad,

If you are refering to your .69 caliber CVA/Traditions cannon. When using a round ball the MFG. suggests a min. of 45 grains to a maximum of 85 grains (1F-2F). This is from the instructions of one I have here.

Marine Dad · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2009, 05:47:47 AM »

Unfortunately I don't have a Manual!

This type of back and forth is one of the reason for this site!
Also to make sure I don't kill myself or someone else.

Is there anyway I could get a copy of the Manual?

CVA doesn't have one, neither does Deer Creek.
I called both. Nice guy at Deer Creek, he actually has the one of the same cannon as I do.
He uses 40 grains of FF. Pillow ticking Patched, 0.69 ball.

Thanks everybody.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:17:45 AM »

Intoodeep,

I'm off today, so when I saw Marine Dad's post, I went digging to see if I still had the original instruction pamphlet from my CVA Nap. III, and lo and behold I found it (unbelievable- pack rat). Now mine gives different recommended charges than yours, this booklet is "Copyrighted 1976 Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc.," and it lists the starting load as 50 gr. of 1f or 2f, and the Maximum load as 70 gr. of 1f or 2f. This discrepancy in amounts probably goes a long way in showcasing CVA's ?brilliance? in trying to guard themselves against legal actions.

Anyhows, Marine Dad, I just snatched this whole from anothr BP site, and this is basically what I was told by my father, uncles and other experienced BP shooters when I was coming up.

"The short answer is to adhere to the manufacturer's recommendation for maximum load for your particular muzzleloader. However, this information is not always readily available. From a practical standpoint this becomes a moot question. Increasing the powder charge to near maximum levels will lead to diminishing returns on the efficiency of the load, as you will experience significant increases in pressure with only marginal gains in velocity with an adverse effect on accuracy. As a general rule, a good target load can be established by starting with a grain weight charge equal to rifle's caliber ( eg 50 grains of FFG for a 50 caliber rifle). To find an efficient hunting charge, increase the charge in 5 grain increments to the point where accuracy is acceptable for your hunting situation. Generally, this should be limited to 30 percent greater than the most efficient target load."

This is what I still go by for a bore of .75 caliber or under, and that's why on the other thread I said Max. 100gr. of FFg with a patched .69 lead ball, or 150 gr. for a salute loaded with a light wad; so as Kabar said, using the mean of 70 gr. of FFg you can find the most accurate load for your barrel experimenting within the range of loading down to 50 grains of 2f, or up to 100 grains of 2f. Don't misunderstand what I'm going to say now; I'm not suggesting to load it over 100 gr. when firing ball, but these barrels are made of mild steel (I don't know what the European designation would be, but here this would be called gun steel, or 4140, so they're tough, well made barrels.

Marine Dad · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:37:31 AM »

Thanks again

I have a CVA .54 Cal Mountain Rifle that i have had for 22 plus years.
Just don't use it like I did once.

intoodeep · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:39:08 AM »

Boom J,

Mine is a Traditions Rev 4/98.

Marine Dad,

You can find a copy of the Traditions manual at:

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/products/CANNON%20SHOOTING%20INFO%20II.pdf

Marine Dad · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:48:34 AM »

Well well!
That's what the Doctor ordered right there!

Thanks

RocklockI · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:01:14 AM »

wrong pew ..I guess !

you better not put an oz+ into a .70cal barrel . that thing will turn into a flying missle BACKWARDS ......yikes on the first shot

??

my BRAND NEW 1/6 scale French 75

came with a loading table , right from the source Mr Carpenter .

9" tube .68 cal. 120 GRAINS for a blank .......he says cut it in half ... 60 GRAINS for a ball load !

if you do it be sure to vidio it and run dont walk ....walk three steps then run like hell behind a rock , or shipping container , fox hole . dont ask me how i know BUT I DO and it isnt pretty to see your baby blown to bits on the very first boom , i really dont think the steel tube will burst but dont let it hit you or carriage splinters .

Quote from: Marine Dad on August 13, 2009, 02:49:14 AM

Ok,
Check my math for me please.
I figure this is the MAX load

Using the Table in N-SSA
I see a 2" Bore max would be 4 oz.
I conclude that to be 2 oz per inch of bore
2 times 0.70 (My Bore), would be 1.4 oz Max. load.

0.69 lead round ball would be 495 grains, or 1.03 oz.

Right?

Marine Dad · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:34:26 AM »

Me thinks my Calculations were a bit off!
1.3 Oz would be 624 grains!

Good Lordy......
That thing would have gone to Georgia before it hit the ground....
Wow

RocklockI · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:54:05 AM »

Quote from: Marine Dad on August 13, 2009, 02:49:14 AM

Ok,
Check my math for me please.
I figure this is the MAX load

Using the Table in N-SSA
I see a 2" Bore max would be 4 oz.
I conclude that to be 2 oz per inch of bore
2 times 0.70 (My Bore), would be 1.4 oz Max. load.

0.69 lead round ball would be 495 grains, or 1.03 oz.

Right?

or 1.30 ?

subdjoe · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:23:28 AM »

The rough rule of thumb I was taught for musket caliber stuff was that grains don't exceed the caliber. .50 cal = 50 grains, .70 cal = 70 grains. .45 cal = 45 grains, etc. And don't drop below 60% of that load. So, .50 cal would be min. 30 grains etc. Again, a rough rule of thumb. But I think a pretty good starting point.

Marine Dad · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2009, 12:30:24 PM »

Intoodeep and all the others, thank you very much for all the help.

The manual will be a big help as well