Author Topic: Carriage for which no barrels survive (Read 885 times)

cannonmn · « **on:** August 28, 2009, 03:03:26 PM »

Here's a USN carriage for the 4 inch (20pdr) "heavy" bronze rifle. It was a follow-on to the light version, 100 of which were made beginning in 1863. The light version had a bronze barrel and cast bronze carriage. The heavy version had the steel (or wrought iron?) and bronze carriage shown, and began production in 1871. The easy way to tell it is for the heavy version is to measure between trunnion rests, 14.1 inches. The light version measurement was about 11.7 inches. Note the brackets inside the rear of the carriage for fuze wrench (?) on left, and vent picks or gimlets on right.

Since there are no original tubes for this carriage, or at least none now known to exist, I'm planning to borrow it from the company to use it to shoot a British 16-pounder RML of about the same date. This steel and wrought-iron tube is a 3-groove rifle, and weighs about 1300 lbs. Bore is 3.6 inches. I think I'll try minie-ball or pellet type projectiles, the easiest thing to make which might work.

Here's a slideshow of the "heavy" carriage. Rough measurements are: Length of carriage body: 42 in. Width of body, not incl. trucks: 17.5 in. Height to top of capsquare: 28 in. The sideplates of the carriage are 0.8 inches thick, and the front plate is 0.6 inches thick.

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/forums43/?action=view&current=eec98e9c.pbw

Cannoneer · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2009, 11:58:00 PM »

Thanks, that's a nice slide show; I like these carriages. Here's a pic of the smaller bronze version that's at the US Navy Museum, Washington, D.C..

intoodeep · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2009, 04:01:44 AM »

Boom J,

Do you have a side profile shot of that photo?

cannonmn · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2009, 05:38:37 AM »

Not trying to answer for BoomJ, but don't think he'll mind if I pitch this in. Here's the only other view I could find at the moment, will look again tonite, I know I have more somewhere.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2009, 06:59:16 AM »

I am a believer that one can not have too many cannon pictures. These photos were taken on different dates.

Max

cannonmn · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:17:38 AM »

That second one I got from "google images," what a coincidence-Max must have posted it somewhere before and the web never forgets.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:09:31 AM »

Sorry Intoodeep, that's all I've got on that one. Cannonmn's YouTube vid has a nice shot of that gun & carriage, and right after it, there comes an image of an incredible bronze percussion cap ignited swivel gun that is almost as gratifying (at least to me, it is) to look at as a work by Michelangelo.
Cannonmn, do you have any still photographs of this pistol gripped swivel gun that you could post?

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cannonmn · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:26:33 AM »

Hey, I got dibbs on that one when the museum has their 2nd fire sale (first one was in 1959.)

I do have more stills of that but computer that can get to them won't be back for a day or two, will look them up then. Some friends of mine in the midwest were intent on duplicating it, and they got the rough casting done. They kept trying to hand-finish it with files so it looked reasonably like the one in the glass case but they never got close and gave up-too much work. If their mold had been very very close and very smooth, they would have gotten it done. Gunmetal bronze is very hard and very hard to work by hand. They even used power sanders etc. but still had to give up.

dan610324 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:35:11 AM »

such a copy should be done by the lost wax casting method
it will generate a perfect casting

Cannoneer · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:38:31 AM »

Thanks Cannonmn! What's your opinion of the security measures that this museum has in place?

Max Caliber · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2009, 10:42:21 AM »

Boom J, I was there this past June and that item was nowhere to be seen. It was missing along with the very nice breech loading swivel gun with hand grip and trunnions.

Max

Cannoneer · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2009, 12:40:33 PM »

Max,

I hope to goodness they just have those pieces in storage, for some reason.

cannonmn · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2009, 01:32:09 PM »

Quote

Boom J, I was there this past June and that item was nowhere to be seen. It was missing along with the very nice breech loading swivel gun with hand grip and trunnions.

Max

That stuff does move around inside the museum from time to time. The percussion swivel (it was ser. no. 2) was in a glass case by itself near front of museum. The very small 1-pounder Hotchkiss I think you are refering to was bolted pretty securely to a board pretty high up, in the Dewey display area. I have it in one of my videos. I'd consider both of those things "unstealable" due to physical restraints on them. I'll take a look next time I'm there and ask if I don't see 'em.

The stuff that walks out of there is valuable, like the Dewey cup that left ca. 1982. It was solid gold, held a couple of gallons, cost $300K from Tiffany in 1898. I've posted info about it on the CMH board a few months back.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:24:12 AM »

Here's the Hotchkiss 1-pounder.

cannonmn · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2009, 03:49:15 AM »

Yup, that's the one, was in the Dewey exhibit last time I was there which was about 20 June 09.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2009, 07:17:38 AM »

Max; thanks for posting the picture of the Hotchkiss 1-pdr. I'm glad you did, because I didn't have a photo of that model, but I was asking for still photos of the all bronze swivel gun with the caplock, that Cannonmn said was marked no.2, and which was one of two of this type swivel gun ever made.

cannonmn · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2009, 07:35:39 AM »

Got main computer back from repairs and am attempting to restore the files to it, which include the photos desired. I had backed up the machine to an external hard drive using the HP computer's program supplied for that purpose. The backup worked, however it proved impossible to reverse, even when the HP tech tried it. However the Seagate external drive came with its own way of doing backup and restore, so I'm working on that method now, hopefully will have stuff restored by tomorrow.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2009, 08:35:39 AM »

This is the best I can do on that piece, sorry. I wanted to take better pictures in June but it was not on display.

cannonmn · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2009, 08:54:46 AM »

The lock is a regular US musket lock, marked Harper's Ferry, 1858.

cannonmn · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2009, 08:57:18 AM »

If Dom can recreate those as more-or-less exact copies, put me down for numbers 1 and 2 please. It just wouldn't be right unless I had a pair.