Author Topic: fire lapping  (Read 2043 times)

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Offline 45-70.gov

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fire lapping
« on: July 12, 2009, 03:41:08 PM »
i  am about to  fire lap all  my  45-70s

32in  BC  hnr
16 in  handi
24 in  stainless steel hnr  varmint
24 in  stainles  marlin  xlr

what  charge  do  you recomend??   [got  lots  of bullseye to burn]
how  many  rounds  you  think  i need each??  [approx.]
on  revolvers i just  shoot  till  that barrel constriction  is gone  at the frame
will  it  matter  to load  them backwards?? [like a bevel base]

i   will  be using  your  lapping   compound
and  the  405 grain wfn  from your  mold
just  wanting  to  polish  the  bore   up  to minimize  leading
these  guns have  seen  little use  and   don't  even  know if  they  need  lapping
just  peace  of  mind  figured  it cant  hurt
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Veral

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2009, 04:15:09 PM »
  I'll address your last statement first: You aren't sure whether the guns even need lapping.  They do.  I haven't heard of a rifled barrel yet that didn't benifit from lapping.  They are all made by machines and men, bot subject to imperfections.  Lapping removes the errors and imperfections.

  Since all barrels are individuals, the amount of lapping required will vary with each.  Use a push through slug before lapping and you WILL KNOW the barrel needs smoothing.  Fire maybe 15 or 20 shots, clean the barrel till most of the lap residue is gone and try another push through. Continue lapping if there is any variation in pressure required to move a push through from breech to muzzle.

  Lap bullet can be fired in either direction without getting the job done bass ackward.

  Bullseye is an excellent powder.  For the large case start with 3 grains and if a bullet sticks in the barrel, remove it as the lap instructions describe how to, and up the charge a little.  If your first shot barely makes it, so you can see it in flight and it is dropping like an old Daisy fired BB in flight, up the charge a half grain.  Lap compound builds up in the bore slightly with the first 5 shots or so, making the push required to get them out the barrel a little greater with each shot.  After 5 shots or so, your bullets speed and trajectory will be very uniform, enough so that you can print real tight groups at close range. - A little story about lap bullet accuracy.  A customer told me he was lapping a 44 or 45 revolver and accuracy was so tight he was clipping frozen twigs from an apple tree in the yard.  When a starling landed in the top of the tree, he sent his next lap shot for the center of it's behind.  He said the bird saw the bullet coming and swung its head to see what it was, but couldn't react fast enough to get out of the way. The 300 gr bullet, flying so slow it was clearly visable in flight, went through through the bird dead center, then became visable again as it exited and went on.

  For those wanting to lap a 22 rimfire, I find the easiest way to know when one is done is to fire five shot groups at 25 yards, with lap charged bullets, until group size quits shrinking.  When you've fired two groups with all shots going through one hole, just switch to clean ammo and let it clean the barrel of any lap residue.  After a few clean bullets have gone through its a good idea to clean any lap residue fromt the action.
Veral Smith

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2009, 04:50:02 PM »
it  has  been  a long  time since  i have don this  and read  you  book

i  thought  i recalled  cleaning  between  shots

on  revolvers  i fill up  so  each  chamber is fired the same
then  clean  and check progress  after  each  cylinder....is  that   right?

when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Veral

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009, 08:16:48 PM »
  Right except for all the cleaning.  One cylinder full isn't going to do wonders.  Fire at least three cylinders full before bothering to clean and check progress, and then clean only the barrel to measure.  Depending on the gun, estimate how many shots will be required to finish the job at the rate your first series changed the barrel, and shoot the full estimated quantity.  If you overdo a little it won't hurt at all, but is far better than not finishing the job.
  You are not done lapping till a push through slug tells you the bore is straight and smooth, by sliding with an even force from breech to muzzle.
Veral Smith

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2009, 07:04:42 PM »
40  rounds through  the  16 inch  handi

usung  the same  slug  to  ''feel''  the inside of  the bore after  each  10

it  is  still  tight right in front of the chamber

i rubbed  a cleaning patch  with  lapping on  that thight spot
a bout  a thousand strokes  too

the  slug pushes  through
slight preasure at the muzzle
then  less  preasure  till  it gets to the chamber
then  a few  good  taps  with my  wooden  tapper

just  keep  shooting  the  lap  bullets??

i  built  a trap  to recycle  my  lead [can't escape  the green  movement any where]

when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Veral

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2009, 01:36:03 PM »
  Keep on lapping till the push through slug stays tight from breech to muzzle.

  If you get tired of the project, shoot it as is.  It will definately be more accurate than it ever was before.  You can pick the project up again any time.
Veral Smith

Offline Silvertp

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 05:09:00 PM »
45/70...

Are you going to do any before / after groups to determine what if any improvements with accuracy?  If so I would be interested in what kind of results you get.

Thanks

Silvertp

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 05:32:45 PM »
45/70...

Are you going to do any before / after groups to determine what if any improvements with accuracy?  If so I would be interested in what kind of results you get.

Thanks

Silvertp

this  gun  is  new
only fired  over a chrony  before  and  after  the chop
lost  about  100fps
not  impressed with accuracy... might  have been  me..didnt  hit chrony
open  sights
i  am  sure  i  will  never  know  the difference  in  accuracy
just knowing  tight spot right infront of the chamber bugs  me
i  just  made  up 25  more lapping  rounds 
if that  don't  do it  i am  done
i  will  re-shoot  over chrony

next  will be a stainless h&r   with  a scope
i  will shoot  it  for accuracy  first
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Silvertp

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 06:55:21 PM »

Sounds good 45/70.  Last thing we want is a one-shot-kill on your chronograph.   ;D

Silvertp

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 12:24:31 PM »
done with  the 16 inch barrel

i got im patient  and got some valve grinding  compound

go  ahead  tell  me how stupid  i was  i can take it

3 evenings with cleaning rod  brush  wraped til  tight

thousands of passes   mostly in the first inch   aslo  hit  the second  inc  a lot

bearly  hit  the third  inch from  the chamber

never  went beyond  the third  inch  with the aggresive  lapping

once  the tight spot  was  out from in front of the chamber  [3  nights work]

i  fired 12  more  fire lapping rounds with  your lap compound

not  shot it  yet  but barrel feels  good  with the push through

it sure  is shiny  in there  too
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Veral

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 07:33:54 PM »
  Valve grinding compound will tear the rifling out for a long ways up from the throat if applied to lap bullets, but on a tight patch it isn't very agressive.  You learned that with your sore arms, I strongly suspect.  However, I certainly don't recommend trying to lap a barrel with any kind of tight patch, as it just polishes over the humps.  Fire lapping with bullets, cuts till it passes a restriction then quits cutting, so it doesn't enlarge a barrel where it is already too large.
Veral Smith

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Re: fire lapping
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 08:16:47 AM »
you  got that right about the sore  arms

i did  get a tight fit

no  i didn't shoot any of the valve grinding compound

in fact  i pushed a patch muzzle to breach to  clean it out
so as not to let  any aggressive compound  near that end of the barrel

even with factory ammo  the rifleing  imprinted  on  the slug
so  i wasn't  concerned about taking out too  much  metal  there
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.