Longevity with Colt type revolvers with mild loads.

[His lordship.]

I have an Uberti 1851 Colt that I bought about 5 years ago and shoot only about 18-20 grains of black powder in it fearing metal stretch.  Thinking of getting some more types.  I had heard that the steel is not the best on these replicas and am wondering how well my Colt will hold up with the mild loads?  I had a Euroarms 1851 Colt in the 1980's and it did stretch out to the point that I ended up junking it for parts after only 7 years of use

I was disappointed with the quality on the Pietta brand 1860 Army and will never buy another one, the Uberti brand seems better, but far from perfect.  Would I be better off with the 3rd model dragoon versus the 1860 Army for strength?  I used to have a Pietta 1860 army and it was a hoot to shoot, the dragoons that I have handled at the gun shows are really heavy, but I have never owned one.   

Thanks.

[AtlLaw]

I was disappointed with the quality on the Pietta brand 1860 Army and will never buy another one,

Well thanks Chris!     I just ordered one 3 days ago... 

[good shot]

The one thing I have heard is not to shoot max loads in brass frames.
I have not been so concerned with the steel frames, I have seen civil war rifles and pistols and am confidant that the construction and metallurgy today is superior to the original.
Best wishes,

[oldandslow]

I was disappointed with the quality on the Pietta brand 1860 Army and will never buy another one,

Well thanks Chris!     I just ordered one 3 days ago... 

Not to worry AtlLaw, I just got one and it is a pretty  nice piece of equipment. I was surprised by how good the trigger is. The only problem I found was the chambers are too small for the bore. I had to hone them out to accept .454 balls. That is what the manual says to use and that is what the barrel slugged out to need.

[AtlLaw]

I had to hone them out to accept .454 balls.

I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT!!!    How much undersized was it?  How did you open the chambers up?  Does anyone make a reamer to do it?

[coyotejoe]

I have used an expanding reamer to do it, they won't go full depth of the cylinder but the first 1/2" is what matters since I don't seat balls any deeper than that. I've also used a shortened tapered pin reamer which allows me to cut to any size from .450-.456" by just controling how deep the reamer goes.
 As to quality of the imported replicas, well there is a reason why they sell for half the cost of a Ruger Old Army or any cartridge gun. If you think about it a cap & ball revolver is much more complex and requires much more machining work than does a single action cartridge revolver, yet they sell dirt cheap. Why do you suppose that is?

[His lordship.]

AtlLaw...sorry about that, I should have added more detail of why I was dissapointed with the Pietta.  The fit was ok, the case harded finish on the frame was not as good as the Uberti in color and depth, but I could live with it.  Yet, that gun was very accurate and reliable, one of the best cap and ball shooters I have ever shot.    

The part that turns the cylinder, when you cock the hammer back was poorly shaped, in that it had a jaged sharp point that actually cut a grove into the cylinder notches on the back of the cylinder.  On my Uberti this same part was cut properly and had an even wedge shape that would allow it to fit properly into the cylinder notches and not gouge anything.

When I purchased both guns I took them apart to check the insides and apply some grease to help protect the interior from burned powder residue.  Upon reassembly the screws were so soft that I damaged the heads by not using a screw driver that had a perfect fit and was more casual about it.  On good steel you don't need to baby the screws as much when turning them in or out.  I ordered new ones as the damaged ones were unsightly, and was super careful about babying (threading) them into the gun.  Don't plan to take my Uberti apart for along time because of that. 

[oldandslow]

They varied a little bit from chamber to chamber, AtlLaw. 5 to 5.5 thoudands. Brownell's has a chamber reamer for .45 Colt chambers that would be perfect at .4525 but it costs 80 bucks plus shipping. I couldn't see spending over half of what I gave for the revolver. I made a simple little hone and it took a while and a lot of measuring. Are the chambers honed true? I don't know but they are pretty close. Of course I don't know just how closely they lined up with the barrel to start with.

I can't give you any results on a target. I can't get the weather to cooperate with my chances to go to the range. Any time I could go we have had high winds so I'm just biding my time waiting for a nice day when I can get loose.

[madcratebuilder]

I have an Uberti 1851 Colt that I bought about 5 years ago and shoot only about 18-20 grains of black powder in it fearing metal stretch.

That is a very light load, in fact that is a brass frame load.  As long as you have a good arbor and wedge fit you well never wear it out shooting those loads.  The Italian steel is at least equal to the originals.  There is a problem on some revolvers with soft parts, hands, triggers, even hammers.  It's more with the older revolvers, newer ones seem to be good to go.

Pietta's quality has really improved in the past few years, as good as any Uberti I have handled. Lately I have seen more Uberti's that need work than Pietta's.

Like coyotejoe said, reaming chambers for barrel fit goes a long ways in increasing accuracy.

The open top Colts need to have the arbor bottomed in the barrel lug with a .006-.008 barrel gap.  The hammer should be a few thousandth off the nipples so you don't get any peening.  You do that and you'll have a good running revolver.

Would I be better off with the 3rd model dragoon versus the 1860 Army for strength?  I used to have a Pietta 1860 army and it was a hoot to shoot, the dragoons that I have handled at the gun shows are really heavy, but I have never owned one. 

Normal loads for the Dragoon is 35-40grs, just slightly less than the Walker.  Lighter and shorter than the Walker they are fun to shot and have much more energy that the 60 Army.  Handle a Walker for a few hours, then  Dragoon well feel small.

[His lordship.]

madcratebuilder...It is interesting that you brought up the 1847 Walker.  I used to have one in the 1980s-early 90's.  It was a well made gun by the brand San Marcos, what a monster, so heavy and big that I had to use two hands to hold it.  Accuracy was real moody, sometimes it was a tack driver, other times it would really spread out the groups.  Traded it off, but perhaps I should have kept it as a decorator as it was truly awesome.   

[madcratebuilder]

Chris, those old ASM's are nice revolvers.  A few had problems with soft internals.  Nothing that Kasenit can't cure.  I'm happy with the ones I own.  This is my newest arrival, a shoulder stocked Dragoon with a long barrel, been looking for some time to find this model.  Now that I have a large frame shoulder stock I need a Walker other than my 2nd gen to cut the frame and grip on.

Did I mention the long barrel.
This is my winter project, defarb and refinish the wood.  I ran across this photo of one in the raw, I kind of like it.

I've thought about cutting the barrel back to original length, but not sure.  Maybe I get lucky and find a short barrel on GB.

[FourBee]

I have a brass Pietta and a Steel one.  Both are fine guns.  Never touched the chambers.  Just shoot'em as the are.  I couldn't tell any difference anyway.    I use both the .451"dia and .454"dia balls.  The .454's are a little harder to seat but the leave a complete ring of lead around the chamber.  That makes for a good seal.   22grains of powder in either gun is a good accurate load.  No need to go much beyond that.
4B

p.s.   Cabela's sells a little repair kit with hammer springs triggers and such.  Which is a good idea to have around.