Author Topic: HELP - New Encore Misfires (Read 1967 times)

lostintexas · « **on:** August 26, 2009, 06:30:39 AM »

I finished building my daughter her first hunting rifle after a two year process. I ordered a new frame from Bass Pro, bought a stock set off of ebay, found a .243 barrel from another forum. She is 9 and was so excited that she was now hunting with a rifle instead of her 20 guage. Well that was until we went to the range. Here's the stats:
Ammo - Hornady 85grain SST factory loads
No hammer extension
Factory TC barrel and frame
Shot less than 15 rounds

We were getting misfires averaging every three shots. I've read up and know hammer extensions can cause this but we're not using one. I also cleaned the firing pin and there was no crud in there. What am I missing? Could this be a headspacing issue? Weak hammer spring? Hard primers? Any help suggestions or ideas would be much appreciated.

I've got to build her confidnce back up quickly.

Thanks in advance,
L.I.T.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2009, 06:46:56 AM »

The problem may be that she is not holding the trigger all the way back until after the round has fired? These have the hammer block safety and you need to hold that trigger back until it has fired.

handgunhuntr · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2009, 06:48:27 AM »

When it does misfire... what does the primer look like? Is it a light strike? hardly any mark?

lostintexas · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2009, 07:56:27 AM »

For the hammer block safety, I don't think that's it. It was doing that for me and my step-father and it did it for both of us.

On primer strike, I only opened the gun once afterwards and it looked like a decent strike, not overly deep but not a small dent by any means. All cartridges that had an issue did eventually fire, some took 3-4 tries but they went. Most went the very next time. Examining the cases after firing there were no signs casing stresses, cracks, separations or other issues.

Thanks for the quick replies!

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2009, 02:21:43 PM »

Take the barrel off the frame and remove the extractor. Drop a factory round into the barrel and check the headspace. Do the same with a fired round.

If all is OK there, and you don't have excessive barrel-to-frame gap, then the spring may need to be replaced.

It's likely to be a chamber cut too deeply, though, as I have seen a number of these over the years.

There are ways to work around this (if you handload) as you are not likely to get a replacement for TC before hunting season. If that is the issue and you want more info, drop me a pm.

lostintexas · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2009, 05:07:50 PM »

sweetwyominghome,

Sorry to ask but how do you check the headspace with a factory round and a fired round? I've only used go/no go guages.

I've got the feeler guages out but what should the gap be?

Thanks again for everyone's help!
L.I.T.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2009, 02:38:12 AM »

Lostintexas-

I sent you a PM.

Thanks!

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2009, 04:24:19 AM »

I have seen this happen on occasion when the trigger stop is out of adjustment. The trigger will break and drop the hammer but apparently not enough to move the hammer block. Try turning the set screw on the back of the trigger guard back 1/4 to 1/2 turn and see what happens.

Headspacing could also be an issue.

martineta · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2009, 11:08:05 AM »

I have one of those lousey Custom Shop barrels in 300 whisper. Everytime I shot it at 100 yards I hit bulls eye with the first one and guess the rest are all misses as I can only see one hole.

Darn,,,,,guess I'll get another.

Idaho_Elk_Huntr · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2009, 01:49:33 PM »

This is usually caused by a head space issue. Are you loading your own ammo?

lostintexas · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2009, 03:06:47 PM »

No, I was using factory Hornady SST. Getting my feeler guages back from a buddy tomorrow so will check frame to barrel gap. Also ordered a beefier hammer spring but don't know how hard those are to replace so may not tackle that.

Thanks for the help!

Luckyducker · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2009, 04:12:03 AM »

LostinTexas, no feeler gauges are needed to check headspace on an Encore. Simply put a factory loaded cartridge in the open chamber and look at the space between the case head and the breach end of the barrel. They should be flush with each other as in no gap. If there is gap that is visible to the naked eye the chamber is out of spec and causing misfires because the firing pin cannot reach the primer with enough force to cause detonation. If you hand load it is an easy fix by simply neck size only the fired brass, if on the other hand you are planning to shot only factory loaded ammo then this barrel will have to be replaced. I assume this would be taken care of by T/C customer service but the turn around might not be soon enough to hunt with this fall. If there is no dissernable gap between the the case head and the barrel breach then the problem is almost certainly a weak hammer/main spring and will have to be replaced. I have never had the need to replace mine and don't know what this entails.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2009, 08:13:15 AM »

martineta wrote: "I have one of those lousey Custom Shop barrels in 300 whisper. Everytime I shot it at 100 yards I hit bulls eye with the first one and guess the rest are all misses as I can only see one hole. Darn,,,,,guess I'll get another."

Not sure what the accuracy of your barrel has to do with the technical question/problem that is being addressed here.
----

LostinTexas-

Have you been able to check the headspace yet?

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2009, 11:40:45 AM »

Quote from: sweetwyominghome on September 01, 2009, 08:13:15 AM

martineta wrote: "I have one of those lousey Custom Shop barrels in 300 whisper. Everytime I shot it at 100 yards I hit bulls eye with the first one and guess the rest are all misses as I can only see one hole. Darn,,,,,guess I'll get another."

Not sure what the accuracy of your barrel has to do with the technical question/problem that is being addressed here.
----

LostinTexas-

Have you been able to check the headspace yet?

Unless it got moved before I saw it that is a post on another thread, not in this one...

lostintexas · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2009, 11:46:00 AM »

No, not yet... Works been killing me but hope to spend some time with it this evening.

lostintexas · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2009, 06:15:03 PM »

Checked the barrel to frame gap and ended up with .006" the .007" closed but the guage was held in place.

As for head space, I removed the extractor and inserted a round. The round did NOT stick up at all and it was actually slightly below the barrel face. I tried a Federal round that I had and it fit flush with the barrel face.

Does that tell you guys anything? Let me know what else you need and again I really appreciate the help!

Idaho_Elk_Huntr · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2009, 02:56:56 AM »

Yep, to me In would say head space issue. If you reload try neck sizing only and see what that does.

lostintexas · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2009, 01:24:37 PM »

I don't reload but may have found a combination that will work. The Federal ammo stick up just a hair ~.001" or less but still a little more than the Hornady. I went to the range at lunch and ran through a box of ammo and had no misfires. We'll see how she does with the combination this weekend. This will hopefully get her through the season and then off to TC it will go.

Thanks everyone for sharing the knowledge and being so patient with me and all the dumb questions!

L.I.T.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2009, 06:08:18 PM »

Keith L -

It did not get moved. It is 5 posts up from yours. ANd the same post appears in the other thread you mentioned as well.

If it had been a snake...

Keith L · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2009, 06:25:24 PM »

I see it today. The other day I didn't. He has the same post in another thread on this forum. I agree that it has little to do with the problem.

jjvw · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2009, 05:02:01 AM »

Might be a little late, but try putting a live round in and cocking it. Holding back the hammer, use a finger to gently push the firing pin in until it touches the primer, If the head space is too much, you won't feel it hit until it is almost bottomed out.
Try different brands off ammo. Remove the extractor and check to see how far a round sticks out. If all brands go in further than flush, send the barrel back to tc.
Try another barrel. Try your barrel on another frame.
Check for bent firing pin. Clean firing pin spring. Especially if you had a black powder barrel on that frame.
To get you thru the season, you may have to use a pop can shim behind firing pin bushing to bring it closer.

martineta · « **Reply #21 on:** September 22, 2009, 11:33:59 AM »

I have a 300 Whisper that the Thompson Custom Shop built for me. I don't reload anymore so rely on factory ammo or a friend that reloads. I bought some subsonic 240 grain sierra matchking bullets from Corbon. I also bought some corbon 125 and 150 grain sonic loads. I bought the 240 grains to head shoot suburban deer quietly. THose subsonics are as quiet as a 22 short buttttttttttttt so far,,,,,,, every other bullet doesn't go off. The 125s and the 150s from Corbon and the 150's my pal loaded all work fine.

Its just those blankety blank 240 subsonics that fire about half the time. I know I got some junk shells from Corbon. They had them on a half price sale.(I wonder why).

Try another brand of ammo. I hope it was just a problem with those Hornady bullets.

lostintexas · « **Reply #22 on:** September 22, 2009, 09:23:02 PM »

Talked to Hornady and sent in spent cases, misfires, and ammo used in testing. After several calls back and forth and lots of testing and measuring on their part it appears that I my barrel has excessive headspace. Actually excessive bore chamber depth. I gotta say that Hornady was VERY helpful and even called me a few times to make sure I had sent in different things and to keep me posted on what they were doing.

For the time being I've found some ammo that seems to be working. I've gone through a few boxes with no issue so far. Once season is over I'll be sending the barrel in to TC for their take on it.

Thanks everyone for all the help!

Simon_lake · « **Reply #23 on:** September 23, 2009, 11:59:13 AM »

Sounds like you have it handled... TC will take care of you.