LR primers in .44 mag.?

[44man]

Has anyone ever tried loading large rifle primers in .44?  I measured a Win. WLP & compared it to a Wolf LR.
Appears to be same cup thickness and dia., LR about .010" higher though.  Measured pocket depth of my Starline brass & thought it should work.
Pressed a few in and they seat between .002" to .005" below case head.  I realize I'll have to back down my normal load as not to overpressure.
My normal load is 24.0 gr. H110 with a 240 XTP.  Thinking about trying a couple at 22.5 or 23.0.  Any comments?
44man

[Graybeard]

Not the wisest plan in my opinion. W296/H110 is a powder that is not supposed to be used with reduced loads. How much hotter the rifle primer will be and what effect it will have on pressures is impossible to tell. If this is for a revolver the rifle primer might be a bit hard for it to ignite in spite of your assumption of cup thickness rifle primers are definitely stronger and harder than pistol primers.

I'd be more inclined to use a more forgiving powder like 2400 for such an experiment personally.

[44man]

This is for a Ruger SRH.  I realize the cup may be harder even though about the same thickness.
Starting charge in Hodgen manual I believe is 23.0,  Have also loaded with Lil'Gun in the past with good results and seems like would be more
forgiving when reducing loads.  Thank you for your reply. 

[Handgun Hunter]

44 Man.

     I had only been reloading for about a year when I was 19 and got done with a box of .44s and noticed that the primers were a tad above flush with the case head. I was smart enough not to try to reseat the primers on a finished round, but not expereinced enough to pull the bullets and start over. At the range the second shot from the first cylinder full sounded and felt much different. when I looked at the gun there was a lot of metal missing from the cylinder of my Ruger SBH. Lucky ther was 6" of snow and no one at the range then exept me and my step brother cause I think I heard something hitting the benches to my right. I had no idea why the primers didn't seat all the way, but I think I got large rifle primers mixed up and the recoil of the heavy dose of 2400 set the cartrige to the right of the chamber and it had no where to go. This revolver is on the wall above my loading bench as a reminder. I would not try this if I were you sir.

     Happy safe reloading, Tim.

[Savage]

H.H.
Sounds like the primer detonated from bouncing off the recoil shield. I would imagine the result would have been the same with LPPs. The high primer was the problem. Unusual occurrence I would think, but you proved it could happen. With proper load development I would have no concerns using the LRP in the .44 assuming ignition was reliable, but not with H-110.
Savage

[Ron T.]

I've got both an old "3-screw" Ruger Super BlackHawk .44 magnum revolver (7½ barrel)  and an original Ruger .44 magnum Carbine... and use my reloaded .44 magnum cartridges interchangably in either gun.

I've always loaded PISTOL primers since the .44 magnum was originally a PISTOL cartridge... and I've been shooting both guns for over 40 years.  I've never had any problem with the carbine's firing pin puncturing the pistol primers. 

If the rifle EVER punctures a primer, then I'll revert to loading rounds for the revolver and the carbine SEPARATELY... using pistol primers for the handgun and rifle primers for the carbine.

Jus' my 2¢...   


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Steve P]

It depends on recipe; the powder, the bullet, and the gun.  My FA .357 Magnum has never seen a small pistol primer.

Steve

[Savage]

Steve summed it up pretty well.
Ron, any load worked up for a revolver should likely be safe for a modern rifle. I'd have no concerns using your revolver ammo in your carbine. I would not be too concerned with the use of rifle primers in pistol cartridges (assuming the load was developed using LRP) but would not (as a rule) load rifle cartridges with pistol primers.
Savage

[Autorim]

Large rifle primers are taller than large pistol. Stay with loads as listed in the manuals. It is very dangerous to experiment.

[Handgun Hunter]

Autorim.

     Thats what I think caused my problem to begin with. I think I got rifle primers seated in the .44 casses by accident. The danger signs were there, but I was too green to see it. I heard a few years letter the rifle primers were taller than pistol primers, and thats when the light went on about what might have happened.

[Autorim]

Small pistol primers and small rifle primers are the same height and both can be used in pistol cartridges with appropriate loads. Small rifle primers require a harder firing pin strike due to thicker cups and may not fire in your gun. You can always load primers only in empty cases and test fire.

As you discovered, it is a very dangerous practice to interchange large pistol and large rifle primers.

[Grumulkin]

Has anyone ever tried loading large rifle primers in .44?  I measured a Win. WLP & compared it to a Wolf LR.  Appears to be same cup thickness and dia., LR about .010" higher though.  Measured pocket depth of my Starline brass & thought it should work.  Pressed a few in and they seat between .002" to .005" below case head.  I realize I'll have to back down my normal load as not to overpressure.  My normal load is 24.0 gr. H110 with a 240 XTP.  Thinking about trying a couple at 22.5 or 23.0.  Any comments?

Comments?  Yes; I've actually done this.  In an attempt to find a more accurate load, I tried H110/Win. 296 with CCI 250 (large rifle magnum) primers in my 44 Magnums.  I found no accuracy advantage and had to back off the load by 1.5 to 2 grains of powder.

Contrary to the opinions of the pundits, in my Contender and Redhawk, there was no problem in igniting the primers.  The primers do not protrude out of the primer pockets to a significant degree (actually, they didn't protrude at all).  In addition it's not dangerous to try if some common sense is used by a knowledgeable handloader.

Think about it.  EVERY time you work up a load, you have to evaluate for excess pressure.  You CANNOT assume that every load listed in a manual will be safe in your gun.  The amount of propellent in a primer is very small compared to the amount of powder in a 44 Remington Magnum case so will contribute relatively little to the resultant pressure.  If you back off the load and work up in the usual fashion evaluating for signs of excess pressure, you should be OK.  If you have no idea of how to evaluate for pressure signs, then you need to scrupulously follow the data in the manual of your choice.

[Autorim]

Grumulkin,

You are correct and it can be done. I would have to have a compelling reason to do so and would probably recut the primer pockets. Many of the posters here are relative newcomers and I do try not to encourage them to do anything contrary to established loads in reliable manuals. I check every reload except on the Dillon for high primers and many people will not do that. IMHO it pays to err on the safe side.

[BBF]

I've always used LR's in loading the 44 Mag ammo for the carbines.

[huntducks]

Has anyone ever tried loading large rifle primers in .44?  I measured a Win. WLP & compared it to a Wolf LR.  Appears to be same cup thickness and dia., LR about .010" higher though.  Measured pocket depth of my Starline brass & thought it should work.  Pressed a few in and they seat between .002" to .005" below case head.  I realize I'll have to back down my normal load as not to overpressure.  My normal load is 24.0 gr. H110 with a 240 XTP.  Thinking about trying a couple at 22.5 or 23.0.  Any comments?

Comments?  Yes; I've actually done this.  In an attempt to find a more accurate load, I tried H110/Win. 296 with CCI 250 (large rifle magnum) primers in my 44 Magnums.  I found no accuracy advantage and had to back off the load by 1.5 to 2 grains of powder.


Contrary to the opinions of the pundits, in my Contender and Redhawk, there was no problem in igniting the primers.  The primers do not protrude out of the primer pockets to a significant degree (actually, they didn't protrude at all).  In addition it's not dangerous to try if some common sense is used by a knowledgeable handloader.

Think about it.  EVERY time you work up a load, you have to evaluate for excess pressure.  You CANNOT assume that every load listed in a manual will be safe in your gun.  The amount of propellent in a primer is very small compared to the amount of powder in a 44 Remington Magnum case so will contribute relatively little to the resultant pressure.  If you back off the load and work up in the usual fashion evaluating for signs of excess pressure, you should be OK.  If you have no idea of how to evaluate for pressure signs, then you need to scrupulously follow the data in the manual of your choice.

Have done Same in 30 Carbine W/AMT pistol, 44 Ruger carbine W/29 S&W never a problem but I don't load HOT except to hunt.

[Autorim]

I will stick with my statement that LR primers are taller than LP and are not interchangeable. To those that load LR primers in .44 mag...did LP primers cause problems that led you to load LR? It is not a high pressure round as rifle cartridges go.

My Sierra and Nosler manuals - the two manuals that I trust the most - only list magnum LP primers with the .44 mag.

I will encourage all reloaders both experienced and inexperienced to load by the book and only experiment when you really know what you are doing. IME if you stray, you will eventually find yourself in trouble. I have been shooting for over 60 years and reloading for almost 50. Don't ask me how I know about the trouble part.