Author Topic: No rear site on Vaqueros....???? (Read 1280 times)

drdougrx · « **on:** August 28, 2009, 03:56:37 AM »

Hi All,

I was looking at the pics of your guns that you'all posted and saw that a number of them had no rear site and a some kinda blade front site. I don't recall ever shooting a revolver without a rear site except a SWm60 many years ago.

I'm trying to convice myself to have Gary Reeder build me woods walker / hunting backup something or other and I like the style and look of the Vaquero platform except I hesitate when I see theres no rear site blade.

My question is...how accurate do you expect these guns to be when they only have a rear notch/funnel rather than a rear, adjustable site blade?

kynardsj · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2009, 05:26:57 AM »

That is what's called fixed sights. In the tradition of the old Colt Peacemaker's and such. If you want something like a Vaquero but with adjustable sights then go with a Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk.

Scibaer · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2009, 05:55:24 AM »

alot of thier accuracy comes from the bullets themselves, handload for these fixed sight guns and they hit where you aim them just dandy.
and you practice too, that matters a great deal.
you'd be suprised what i can hit and at what distance with my new model vaquero.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2009, 05:57:17 AM »

Actually there really is a "rear sight." It is a groove across the top of the pistol. It is called a fixed rear sight. You sight the gun by lining up the front blade with the groove. The fixed rear sight helps some with right and left, but doesn't do much at all for up or down. If you want to adjust your sight you have to change the front blade. That is something you don't want to do very often. Most people "adjust" their point of aim up and down by changing their ammunition. The fixed rear sight makes it easier to carry and draw a cowboy gun like the Vaquero. It makes a Vaquero difficult to use with any precision. Lots of old time gunslingers and lawmen removed the front blade from their Peacemakers (and similar cowboy pistols.) That made for a quick draw and a lot of hip shooting. It also made for a lot of missed shots and damaged walls in the Long Branch Saloon.

Most shooters who want something to carry in the woods will opt for a Blackhawk or similar Single Action with proper adjustable sights.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2009, 06:43:51 AM »

I have to agree with Scibaer about the importance of practice with a Vaquero. A Vaquero's inherent accuracy is just as good as any Blackhawk of the same caliber. The fixed rear sight, however, requires a complete understanding of the individual gun and it's ammunition. That only comes with practice. Lot's of practice.

Because of its inherent strength and modern design the Vaquero is the working gun of choice for thousands of Cowboy Action Shooters. Those folks practice a lot and most of them can do amazing things with their Vaqueros, but only after shooting hundreds or thousands of rounds a month.

Interestingly very few people in the old west shot enough to become as proficient with their six shooters as the average modern cowboy shooter. They just didn't shoot that much. A real gun hand might shoot 500 pistol rounds a year. The average cowboy might shoot his peacemaker 500 times in his entire life. Very few of folks on the frontier shot enough to really learn their gun. The expert trick shooting you see in the movies is just that--trick shooting done by modern experts. Of course there were exceptions, most notably Wild Bill Hickock, but by in large they weren't all that good.

drdougrx · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2009, 07:56:45 AM »

I've actually owned many SBHs and BHs in my time. I've had MagNaPort rebuild alot of them. I was looking at photos in an earlier thread and was wondering if I was missing something (as I often do!) I'm going to keep looking and see if I can try a few out. As I said, I'm not looking for a primary hunter, justa wild dog, pissed off hog or wounded bear kinda backup. Actually...to be truthful, just a cool gun to wow my friends more likely, that may serve the other purposes as well.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2009, 08:17:19 AM »

As to your precise question, how accurate can you expect a Vaquero to be with it's rear sight. Depending on the caliber and your ammunition, it will easily shoot minute of wild hog at 75 yards. Out to about 30-50 yards it is as good as you would want for most purposes especially if you are shooting fast. I just don't think it is humane to use it as a primary hunter.

drdougrx · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2009, 03:02:54 PM »

Hey Bart,,,,fair enough. I suspect that all shots would be less that 25yards at any rate.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2009, 06:01:54 PM »

Then you would be good to go.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2009, 01:46:03 AM »

theres no differnce in accuracy between a vaquero and a blackhawk. there basicaly the same gun. Only downfall to the vaquero is that there a little more tedious to get sighted in and once you do there best left to shoot the same load all the time as changing loads changes point of impact and you have to start all over resighting them. Blackhawks are defineatly more flexible but i still love a vaquero.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:15:41 AM »

Though I don't own a Vaquero, a bunch of my buddies do. The ones who hunt with them spend a good amount of time finding that ONE load that shoots just right. After finding it, they usually load up a bunch of them! One of my buddies shoots a 265gr WFN, in front of some 231, outa all of his 45s and smacks whitetails with them on a regular basis. His favorite one(read that as carry gun) is a cut down "Sherrif's Model".

HWD

drdougrx · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2009, 11:08:53 AM »

This is all really excellent information!

I'd really like to retire my SW M29 Mountain gun in 44mag. I'd like something that carries better, not that theres' anything wrong with it at all. I'd also like something that'll throw a 300+gr bullet with some authority from a 4 or 5" barrel, though I suspect I'm leaning towards a casull. Reeder lists a few backup guns on vaquero frames and I'm trying to decide if I really want to have one built.

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** August 29, 2009, 11:18:48 AM »

Doug the REAL PROBLEM with them is not accuracy but as Lloyd said getting it sighted in or as I prefer to say it getting the dang thing to hit where you're aiming. With no adjustable rear sight it has to be done by load development or turning the barrel or bending the front sight. None of which I feel comfortable with. Load development I don't mind but I've found darn few non adjustable rear sight revolvers I could get to hit POA that way.

I claim no status as gunsmith and am not gonna try twisting the barrel to sight in. That's why I own no such guns and likely never will other than a few snub nose defense carry guns I figure are likely to be used up real close or not at all. Every such gun I've owned otherwise has been a disappointment to me and was moved down the road at a loss to me.

hillbill · « **Reply #13 on:** August 29, 2009, 02:16:52 PM »

id have to side with graybeard, if a revolver doesnt have adjustable sights it is basically a crapshoot as far as where it will hit in relation to the sights.elevation can be pretty easily fixed with a different load but like gb said, right and left is fixed by bending the front sight or turning the barrel. something i really dont feel good doing either.they are excellent guns and when tuned they are just as good as the blackhawks.yu may even get lucky and get one that hits where yu is looking.

MePlat · « **Reply #14 on:** August 29, 2009, 03:01:21 PM »

Bought a 45/8"s inch 45 Colt 2 weeks a go and am sending it to Dustin Linebaugh next week to have a dovetail ramp front put on mine.
Should be no problem windage wise (driftable) but will leave it just slightly low.

drdougrx · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2009, 03:04:49 PM »

Yeah GB and Hillbill....that's something to think about before I shell out at least a grand. And I do like to tinker with loads!!! Might just drive me crazy....suppos'n I'm not already there!

I swore I wouldn't build another gun........

Greeenriver · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2009, 04:57:33 PM »

Oh Boy, here's where I disagree with most of you. I HATE them big, ugly, adjustable sights on a revolver. Just completly spoils the great clean lines and apperence of one for me.

I have mostly Colts, and Colt clones for revolvers. Got one Ruger Single Six that has the dovetail rear sight, but I'm giving that one to my daughter, and a pair of Ruger Bearcats that are really nice looking little guns. A pair of Clones in 32-20 that I've filed the sights to hit POA, 4 clones in 45 colt that hit POA with the load I normaly shoot in them, and a pair od real Colts that hit POA at 25 yds with my mormal 45 colt load. It never fails to surprise me when I buy another revolver and find my mormal 45 load works well in it.

It's very easy to develope a load for a fixed sighted revolver. Play with a couple diferent bullet weights, diferent speeds, a little work with a flat file on the front or rear sights, then stick to that load with that revolver.

Then, shoot the danged thing till you know exactly where it's going to hit!!! Shoot it a LOT!!! Then, shoot it a lot more!!! My normal 45 colt load is a 200 grn cast RNFP with a big flat point, over a compressed charge of APP BP sub. I've taken a few deer with it, the furthest being about 75 yds. Makes a good hole in both sides, deer falls down, no problem. The hard pard is waiting till I have a shot I KNOW I can make. I will pass on a deer if I have any worries about the shot at all. I use a lighter load in the C45S case for Cowboy Shooting, but the ranges are shorter and the targets way bigger.

Over the years, I've sold or traded nearly every revolver I owned with adjustable sights, and have no intentions of ever owning another. They just look so UGLY to me, LOL.

Greeenriver

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2009, 06:02:13 PM »

I don't need or want to "know where it hits". I want the darn thing to hit where I'm pointing and with non adjustable sights that just ain't happening. Every Colt/Clone I've had my hands on shoots way left for me and more often that not low as well but ALWAYS left.

Yeah I've heard all the stories and they are BS. It matters not if I hold and shoot it in one hand right handed, one hand left handed or with both. They still shoot left and by pretty much an identical amount. It ain't me.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2009, 12:17:05 AM »

i agree with both of you. I think ajustable sights on a single action are an eyesore. I have a bunch of blackhawks but like my vaqueros much better. I like greybeard insist my guns hit to point of aim though. In the field in a hunting situation theres just to many things to think about to have to remember where i have to aim to get a hit. Getting one to hit to point of aim isnt rocket science it just takes some time.

44 Man · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:32:57 AM »

I have to say that I have had very few Ruger Vaquero's that didn't shoot where they were supposed to horizontally. I have had to do some filing on the top of the rear sight as it is tall enough for heavy loads as it comes from the factory. I have had some real problems getting italian SA guns to shoot where they looked. If you plan to use heavy loads, I honestly doubt you will have to do anything to a Vaquero. 44 Man

cwlongshot · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:56:56 AM »

Good info here!! Unless I missed it, one of the biggest things with the SA design is its inherent pointability. I look at most of my SA's in the same lite as my recurve bow or throwing a frisbee or a foot ball. Non of these have sites either. Generally no one has problems for long "hitting" a receiver or buddie on the beach tossing a ball or firsbee..right? With the colt or XR3 RED framed Riugers, they point very naturally. Also the origional front sites where intentionally made very tall to be "sited-in" buy their owners with a file!!! If too lo, half a mercury dime could be silver soldered in and the process repeated. Turning the barrels isnt really hard, but I admit beyond most gun owners today. BTW, bending the front site..thats HACK WORK!!!

As pointed out, yes they do have sites, rudamentary sites, but sites just the same. Just like 44 I too have and have shot many many of them. VERY few where not able to be made to shoot to the point of aim fairly easilly.

44,
Thats a sharp shooter you have posted up for us, thanks!!

CW

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #21 on:** August 31, 2009, 12:22:03 AM »

I too havent had that much problem with the horizontaly. I know some sneek out of ruger with the barrel not screwed in with the sight perfectly straight but most are fine. I found most people that have problems with fixed sighted guns not hitting center of mass on a target have problems with there trigger control. What really adds to it in a ruger is the heavy trigger pull they leave the factory with. Some are so bad that its about impossible to get a proper trigger release and keep a sight picture and it makes you almost torque the gun over as you pull it.

bluecow · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2009, 01:33:16 AM »

have to say that yes adjustable sights on a S/A are ugly as home made sin, yet mine is a tool and i want it it hit and be comfortable to shoot. ill keep my one ragged hole sights, over sized grips and all. with this i have the use of many dif. loads.

BigMuddy · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2009, 01:14:39 PM »

NO BS...I have had and do have several fixed sight guns that hit dead on to POA. I have had a few that needed tweaking, but most do not.

Still, I hunt with adj. sighted guns.

rawhidekid · « **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2009, 07:34:55 AM »

I picked up a Ruger stainless Bisley .357 mag. It shot left from the start but filing on the edge of the sight grove got it shooting strait. What completely amazed me was the 180 grn bullets shot to same point of aim as the 158 grn. I was expecting them to shoot higher. I have noticed with my older blackhawks that light loads would shoot slightly left and hot loads right on. This gun seamed to not care if hot or not.